Dempsey as a modern fighter-

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Kamikaze, Feb 24, 2021.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Champions too, but the thing is they exaggerate almost everybody's. It's very likely Dempsey height, too, was rounded up. Nobody gets their height rounded down.

    But I won't do the work if the idea is that the data is all flawed, fair enough.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If he was making 175 in 1916 and before, I'd say it's almost (but not quite) beyond question that he could make 168lbs, in that body, in 2021. It's almost certain.

    Very little different physically between he and someone like Caleb Plant. Both listed as 6'1, Plant listed as having a longer reach, and unlike Dempsey he really is "ripped and lithe as a cheetah."

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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  3. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm sticking with the OP's title, and assuming that, by "fighting," he meant fighting as in boxing. For whatever it's worth, I think Jack Dempsey, coming up in modern times, would be competing where the most money could be made, and, in general, we all know what Weight Division that is. I would say the same for Rocky Marciano and many other Heavyweights from the past.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Even I don't think Dempsey could make welterweight, where the most money has been made over the last decade. But you never know.
     
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  5. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Maybe he could have done so when he was young. But I doubt that he could have done it in his prime. There’s not many good weigh-in photos from his career, especially where he’s flexing. But I’ve seen a couple of good stills from some of his fights though.

    There’s a few good ones from the Willard fight, where he officially weighed in at 187 pounds.

    I have a hard time seeing where he could have stripped away almost another 20 pounds in order to make SMW.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/zkNYDNJN53iYNxhK6
     
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  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I have a really hard time seeing how he couldn't.

    But i've been through this dozens of times. If people can't see it, I just leave them to it, but it would be very, very easy.

    And it's 12 pounds.
     
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  7. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    Funnily i thought so to but after some digging Jack disagrees with us he was 180lbs for Willard by his own admission.
     
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  8. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    For the Willard bout he weighed 180lbs by his own admission-
     
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  9. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    People severely under estimate how much water weight can be boiled out in the modern era-
    You have provided plenty of evidence those who fight it simply will not change their view.
     
  10. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    He was 180lbs for Willard-
     
  11. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    REALISTICALLY, I think Jack could have been a Cruiserweight today, but he'd certainly make more money at Heavyweight. And that's exactly where he'd be before long, IMHO. I really don't see the big guys scaring him off, based on the career he had. As for being a Light Heavyweight (175), or Super Middleweight (168), Jack was actually fighting at 200 pounds as early as 1918, before he even won the Heavyweight Title. He was 187 pounds for Willard, probably as low as he could effectively get himself and still feel healthy, by design, for maximum speed. I just do not see him at 168 or even 175.
     
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  12. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    You have so few likes why?
    Also Dempsey was 180lbs for Willard his prime weight.
     
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I do think it would have been possible. But I don’t think that he could easily have done it over a prolonged period.

    You don’t know that it would have been very very easy for him.

    You have no way of knowing that.

    You’ve showed me a photo of Caleb Plant to try and prove your point. You’ve chosen Plant because he’s of similar height and reach. But everybody has different body compositions. Different bone density etc. Plant used to weigh-in as a MW when he was younger. But look at someone like Beterbiev who’s thick set. He’s smaller in terms of height and reach than Plant. Yet he doesn’t fight at SMW, and we don’t know if he could have made MW.

    Everybody is different. Dimitri Bivol has spoken of fighting at SMW. But he hasn’t of yet. Chad Dawson fought there briefly, but he couldn’t get back for the fight with Andre Ward, where he had an absolute nightmare. It’s easy saying that it’s only 12 pounds. Joe Calzaghe was a career SMW but he had to starve himself in order to make weight. It was extremely hard for him. And when he moved up to LHW, he was weighing in under the limit, where he’d have been no more than 180 pounds in the ring. And he had a walking around weight between 190-200 pounds.

    Unless most of Dempsey’s recorded weights are incorrect, I think it’s more probable that a guy who was comfortable between 185-195 pounds who was thick set and looked solid with a low percentage of body fat, would probably have fought at LHW today.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No, nobody can "know" same as nobody can "know" half of the posts they make on this forum are irrefutably true, but if Dempsey couldn't get rid of 6, 7 percent of his weight in a targeted cut the day before a fight he'd be part of a tiny, tiny minority of professional athletes (when young).

    I'm more sure Dempsey could kill that weight than I am that Roy Jones could defeat Michalczewski. One is subject to a certain amount of randomness and the other, far less.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm going to leave this weight thing be now, the science is there for anyone that wants to google it and me saying the same thing over and over again isn't going to help anyone who can't get there by doing that.

    But I do want to do away with this notion that Jack would have to be heavyweight to make the big money.

    The highest grossing fist fights of this century are:

    Mayweather-McGregor, 154lbs.
    Mayweather-Pacquiao, 147lbs.
    Mayweather-Alvarez, 154lbs
    Mayweather-Oscar, 147lbs.
    Joshua-Ruiz II, Heavy

    The common denominator isn't a heavyweight. Those days are gone now. That's last century's thinking. The common denominator is a fistic genius and pound for pound number one.

    Right now, prime Dempsey would be pound-for-pound number one. He's a fistic genius. He's white. He's American. And he's a knockout artist. Yeah, Dempsey might make more money fighting men at heavyweight so unlike him as to be his fighting light-middleweights. That might happen. It generally doesn't any more, but it might. But he would be the single highest paid boxer in history, i'd bet, by considerable distance, without ever thinking about heavyweight.

    These are the things, to me, that are exciting in thinking about modern Dempsey. Not him trying to fight Anthony Joshua in the single biggest size discrepancy title fight of the modern era.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
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