Dempsey as a modern fighter-

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Kamikaze, Feb 24, 2021.


  1. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

    30,071
    36,882
    Jul 24, 2004
    I'm not contesting your point that lighter weights made more money, just don't think Mayweather's $$$ should be considered until someone makes more than he did. Which may never happen.

    We can revisit after Fury-Joshua I and II. My guess is that is we weren't in a pandemic and could have live audiences then Fury-Joshua money would approach some of the fights you mentioned.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,012
    48,110
    Mar 21, 2007
    That's for sure possible. It could be that a bit of a corner will be turned out of the pandemic. Personally I think the ppv model has some years left to it, probably in multiples of decades, for really big fights and that inflation will call some purses north of that. Will be interesting to see what the middle east will bid for Fury-Joshua, should it transpire.

    The bottom line though, is that for a generation the idea of the biggest riches being at heavyweight is a headscratcher. It hasn't happened like that. If you remove Mayweather all together the biggest earner becomes Pacquiao is all, who is probably overhauled by Canelo.
     
    FrankinDallas likes this.
  3. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

    11,401
    17,238
    Jul 2, 2006
    the issue is with saying he didn't cut

    I think he was as light as he could healthily be. He was fighting outdoors in extreme heat. He had to be in the best possible shape and the lightest weight to sustain that kind of energy expenditure.

    I don't buy that he was 180 lbs either. It seems more like a myth to me.
     
    Jackomano likes this.
  4. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,065
    6,932
    Feb 21, 2009
    My reply is: No reply.
     
    PhillyPhan69 likes this.
  5. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,065
    6,932
    Feb 21, 2009
    My reply is: We can agree to disagree. You've made a good argument. I just don't agree with your conclusions.
     
    Bukkake likes this.
  6. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,493
    3,719
    Apr 20, 2010
    I kind of feel sorry for you - so I have just given this last post of yours a like.
     
    PhillyPhan69 likes this.
  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,868
    44,599
    Apr 27, 2005
    The bolded might be the key dmt. Perhaps he did cut a bit and come in lighter on purpose but as you allude he had to stop before he crossed the point of being negatively affected. The current guys don't have to worry about that. They can cut to where they are weak as a kitten because they know they will get all or almost all of it back by fight time. They aren't governed by the same restrictions.
     
    It's Ovah, McGrain and dmt like this.
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,012
    48,110
    Mar 21, 2007
    Unoquevically he didn't cut. Of course he didn't cut. Why would he cut?

    I believe the complete opposite, and this is absolutely apparent in my view, but, I've never used the argument. My point is this: even if you are completely right, Dempsey could STILL have cut 10lbs plus under modern conditions and recovered, completely, without ill effects, for most of his life. This is supported by science, and eyes. That is, fighters DO IT and then box absolutely brilliantly having completely recovered thirty hours later.

    I don't want to offend you but reading your post I feel like you don't understand what a cut is. A cut is a fighter trained to a quill who undertakes weight drain before his weigh in to make weight. He then refuels. He doesn't "Rehydrate". That's not what happened. The science has changed.

    Recovery from weight cut is the single biggest change in this sport for decades. Amazing it's so ill understood.
     
    It's Ovah, Kamikaze and Pat M like this.
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,012
    48,110
    Mar 21, 2007
    Well we can agree to disagree, that is true. But what i'm saying is: the big money isn't exclusively at heavy any more and fights don't have to go there to get it. This is irrefutably true. So i can't understand what we're disagreeing about? But ok.
     
  10. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,065
    6,932
    Feb 21, 2009
    Okay then! Hahahaha.
     
  11. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,065
    6,932
    Feb 21, 2009
    VERY intelligent post. I do believe that many disagreements often come from people's differing views on those exact assumptions, not only in this thread, but also in many others. Some may think of it as bringing Dempsey plucked from his time and brought forward to 2020 with a Time Machine, as you suggested. Or Dempsey being born in more Modern times, with no recollection of any prior life. Still others may think of it as Dempsey being brought back, and his body put into prime condition, in Modern Times, with the full history and experience of his entire boxing career still in his memory. I really think you have hit on something here!
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,012
    48,110
    Mar 21, 2007
    Yeah, I've been sniffing around Dempsey's two fight series with Johnny Sudenberg and he probably was a super-middleweight around that time. He is repeatedly referred to as "a middleweight" around this time though I suspect he was not one in a literal sense around the time of the fights with Sudenberg. He may have been one shortly before that, I don't know.

    The point is that it appears Dempsey probably weighed in around the 168lb weight limit during his 1900s career. I'm not prepared to state what that would mean for his imagined 2020s career because people just don't seem to want to cope with the reality of what a light-heayvweight JD would be in 2021, never mind a SMW JD.

    But objections to his weighing in as a Super-Middle in the modern era can comfortably be dismissed now. He did something very like it in his real life.