Dempsey doesn't belong in HW top 5's. Perhaps not HW top 10's.

Firpo was on a slide after being kod by Dempsey ,he was 8 lbs heavier for the Wills fight not in shape , two months after losing to Wills Firpo lost ten out of 12 rds against Charley Weinert ,a man he had kod in 2 rds a year earlier.I give Dempsey more credit for his ko of Firpo who was challenging for the title ,than Wills for outpointing an unmotivated Firpo later.Gun Boat Smith? OK lets drag him in.Dempsey beat him on pts over 4rds in1917,in 1918 he kod him in 2 rds ,flooring him 9 times Wills gets to the Gunboat 3 years later in Havana Cuba in a fight which as well as being Smiths last was one in which in his own words "I only took it for the boat ride".Smith was 34 ,since you brought up Wills age against Firpo.I beleive I am aware that how A does against B does not allways indicate how C will do against B, but in this case I think Dempsey's wins are the more creditable. For the record if Dempsey had met Wills and kod him where does he rate?

 

"If Dempsey had met Wills and Ko'd him where does he rate?"

Several notches higher and a top five rating would then be reasonable. Now I think it is not justified. Quite a bit would hinge on when the fight took place. A Dempsey victory in 1920 would be much more impressive than a Dempsey victory in 1924 or later over an aging Wills.

The Firpo fights are hard to judge. Was Foreman's KO of Lyle more impressive than Quarry's decision victory. Quarry did not stop Lyle, but did not come close to losing.

 

The difference between the Lyle fights is they were three years apart ,in the reverse order to Firpo's defeats to Dempsey and Wills. Lyle was on the way up ,had yet to challenge Ali for the title when he met Quarry,so that is more meritorious ,imo. Firpo wa s on the way out when Wills beat him ,he was fighting for the title when Dempsey stopped him.

 

Reasonable points, but Firpo still came closer to defeating Dempsey than he did to defeating Wills.

 

True but Wills did not drop firpo 7 times in 2 rds either, in fact he did not drop him at all.

 

He definitely had him down. I have seen the photo. I think he dropped him twice, but I might be wrong about that.

 

The two fights tell us half the story.

While Dempsey was clearly the far more efective puncher and better all round package, Wills style was more failsafe.

The Wils Firpo fight did prompt unfavourable comparisons with the Dempsey Firpo fight at the time.

 

So Dempsey took more risk to be more devastaing but in the process came close to losing, while Wills took little risk schooled his man and was never in danger of losing.

 

Even if the Louis win is under-rated and that version of Louis stacks up well against the big men that Dempsey beat the general point has to stand that Dempsey was far more proven against this type of fighter.

Old Louis vs Fulton would be interesting.

Louis was verry dependant on his jab to outscore oponents at this point and Fulton had a superb jab himself.

 

I would say that is true ,but the Firpo, Dempsey fought was rather more ambitious and motivated I think.