Dempsey - Greb

Well Gene Genie wasn't there to see anything so..

 

To me Harry greb is the greatest P4P boxer who ever lived, because of his unique qualities. Great handspeed over a 15 round distance..Great movement afoot, that
made it difficult to time him solidly.A great chin that aside from his first year against a larger more experienced Joe Chip,was able to withstand the punches of even heavyweights in a 300 bout career. Great stamina and LOVE of combat.
And Greb, never gave you the ball, he was always on the attack.Astounding record...
However, I cannot see the prime Harry Greb @ 160 ,beating the Dempsey of Toledo
in a 15 round bout, regardless of Greb's success in a couple of hot training camp sessions
I,once read a column by a writer who saw them sparring where greb got the best of their 3 round sessions, in which he claimed Greb told him 'In a real fight after a couple oif rounds, Jack would kill me.' If this statement was hyperbole or not on the writers
article,I know not.But read it I did.Dempsey in 1919 or abouts was an animal, and even
the great 160 pound Greb, could only dodge the bullet for so long...IMO...

 

In a 6 or 8 rounder Greb might pull it off. 10 or beyond I see Harry getting knocked out.

 

Beating a man over 3 rounds of sparring with bigger gloves and maybe headgear (I know dempsey often used headgear) is far different then a 15 round fight.

 

Of course Dempsey would've crushed him.

As for the rest of his quote. If Dempsey is the greatest fighter ever... what does that make Tunney?

 

well i dont know what tunney would have really said..i mean..i think even tunney knew he never faced the best dempsey....

 

It is hard to make a pick in this fantasy fight because however comprehensivley Greb could have outboxed Dempsey, the mauler would only have needed to put him on the canvase for ten seconds to render it irrelevant.

As champion Dempsey would undoubtedly have dictated the terms of the bout to make this more likley.

 

I see Dempsey koing Greb, over anything more than 8 rds.

 

It makes Tunney able to beat an old,past prime fighter who hadn't fought in three years...Not a morsel more....

 

In competition, Dempsey would be testing both Greb's body and chin with five or six ounce gloves. His power was at an entirely different level than that of Miske, Brennan, Tunney or Tommy Gibbons. Greb's advantage in speed could only hold off the Mauler for so long. Carpentier was also faster than Jack, and carried considerably more punch in his right.

Keep in mind that Dempsey was the only man to ever floor Tunney or Miske, the only one to ever knock Miske out, and the first man to put Brennan on the deck (seven times in all). He knocked out Brennan twice, the only man to do it in Bill's first 100 fights, the second time three years before Firpo also needed 12 rounds to finally pull it off again at the end of KO Bill's career. He was the first one to knock out Battling Levinski in 250 bouts. Check out Willard's chin through 26 rounds against Jack Johnson, ten against Frank Moran, then later over the first 11 rounds against Floyd Johnson, and seven rounds against Firpo. What Dempsey did to him in round one at Toledo was completely off the charts.

Greb wasn't stupid. Of course he wanted Jack. Big money and publicity, and essentially a no lose situation for him, and no win situation for Dempsey. But he also understood the reality of what a competitive outcome likely would have been. The championship distance would probably be stipulated, rather than a title fight with a ten or 12 round limit. True, Harry was extremely sturdy, but not impervious.

With benefit of hindsight, we now know that the very best time for Dempsey-Greb to have taken place was in late 1919, after Toledo, during Harry's greatest year, in a peak for peak title showdown.

 

Naturally, Gene wanted fans to read between the lines. But he was also on the undercard of Dempsey-Carpentier in 1921, and understood that Jack was not the same in 1926 and 1927 as he was just after turning 26 years of age.

 

Greb also said himself that he would fight Dempsey, but only for 6 rounds because HE said "fter that he'd kill me". Like a lot of fighters Dempsey in training and Dempsey in a big fight was a whole diff. kettle of fish. Kearns said that if he ever saw Dempsey frown, clench his fist and walk at him, he wouldn't give a plugged nickle for his life. I think Dempsey was the hardest hitter and by FAR the most ferocious fighter in history (Tyson's hero too, by the way), and just as he weaved under Jess' jab, he would do the same to the Klitko's and KO glassjaw in 1 and his robot brother in 4 at the most. Lewis? sorry, more glass shatters. :vikingBTW, that was a terrific book you wrote. Now I need a book on Ketchel (I was hoping in 83 after "Papa Jack" came out that Randy Roberts would write one, but no such luck. I have Walker's bio and now Greb, Langford and Fitz., so I just need a critical bio of Ketchel and I'd like one of Monzon or Galindez.

 

M, very well put !Dempsey of the Toledo era was a force of nature.
Too bad aside from the out of synch Willard fight, we today have never seen the real Manassa mauler...
I have a biography of Stanley Ketchel, by Nat Fleischer, printed in 1946.Fleischer then a young reporter saw Ketchel's New york fights,
and also his training sessions at Woodlawn Inn at Van cortland Park,NY.
he tells a story of Ketchel driving a car,under the El,and weaving through the steel girders.Fleischer told him to please slow down, but Ketchel
remarked 'old timer, I'll never make 25 years old ", and the wild Stanley
was prophetic,,,He was killed at the age of 24 in 1910..
Aside- my old uncle long dead, saw Stanley Ketchel train at woodlawn Inn
also...

 

thanks, great story. Ketchel is my favorite!:thumbsup