(Dempsey) Heavyweights That Never Cut (Dempsey)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by The Kurgan, Dec 2, 2007.


  1. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    First off, great avatar. I've been seeing them live on almost every tour for the last 10 years, and I still can't get enough. My first date was watching the Irons back in 2002!

    Secondly, I'm not convinced that this is any more than a myth, or at least that it is not based on skin colour. For instance, Oscar Bonavena was nearly as white as Hatton, but had a reputation for being impossible to cut (Ali couldn't do it in 15 rounds). Then you have boxers like Winky Wright and Lennox Lewis who cut a fair bit.

    Rather than pseudo-scientific explanations concerning melanin (melanin does a number of things, but I've never heard of it toughening the skin) I think cheekbones and overall facial structure are more important. This could mean that certain races may seem to have an advantage if they tend to have certain facial types. It seems that round, smooth faces with no jagged edges (feminine faces) are the best to avoid cutting, since there are no points for the skin to stretch on the bone.

    So someone like Winky Wright, who had more jagged edges than mount Everest, cuts a lot more than Oscar Bonavena (who, while long-faced, had smooth eyebrow bones and low cheekbones) would, regardless of skin colour. On the other hand, black fighters may tend to have more feminine facial features, which would help them to avoid being cut.

    However, I've seen nothing other than anecdotal evidence to support the view. What might be significant is that if a guy is white, it's much easier to see blood on him.
     
  2. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    He needed almost 20 stiches, if I remember correctly. That performance showed the best and worst of Lewis: when he had confidence and was getting through he was brilliant, when he got timid he looked awful.

    Of course, I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that very few men were able to consistently hit Louis on the eyes. A good defense can be a great substitute for McCall-like durability!

    Quite right, I think he was stopped on cuts in fact.

    To be quite honest, while I'm a Wlad fan I never really bother with his fights of that period. It wasn't until his management started to realise they only had a few prime years left (from about the Sam Peter fight onwards) that he started facing really intriguing opponents.
     
  3. DaveTheWave

    DaveTheWave Man Extraordinaire Full Member

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    Frazier was never cut, I don't think.
     
  4. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    Certainly never badly. Frazier's problem was that he would swell up like a water-balloon.
     
  5. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    What you say here makes sense, although it seems to be no more reliable than the relation between a big neck and a good chin in boxing terms.


    For instance, Ali does not seem to have that good cut-resistance if you look at him:

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    Same for a guy like Monzon:

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    What may also be a factor is the simply fact that over the past century, most of the best boxers were black. White boxers in general were lesser skilled, therefore got hit more so it can be expected that cuts are more associated with them.
     
  6. joe33

    joe33 Guest

    Great band mate,im hoping to see them at twickenham stadium next year,best band ever.
    Any way you may be right,i guess maybe its because its easier to see on white guys(not being racist here) then black lads.
     
  7. joe33

    joe33 Guest


    Maybe but look at the damage vitali had against lewis,both pretty evenly matched fighters in that one,yet vitali looked like he had been attacked by a lion,seems white fighters and white people in generals skin maybe is not as tough.
     
  8. RoccoMarciano

    RoccoMarciano Blockbuster Full Member

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    I don't know they do.. Perhaps the red colour is just more obvious???

    I tend to think we have the same skin :)

    Hagler got a bad cut in his fight with "chicken legs"... looked real bad, even on Hagler's skin.
     
  9. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not starting the race thing, but we had great white fighters. Just as good as the black fighters.
    Rocky Marciano
    Ted Kid Lewis
    Jimmy McLarin
    Carman Basilo
    Gene Tunney
    DLH
    Micky Walker
    Harry Greb
    Jake LaMotta
    , and most of these guys have beating plenty of black fighters on the way up, or even defended against them. I also would not call them "less" skill than a black fighter. If we had one great fighter vs other, it could go either way, and race should play little if hardly no part in the out come. We had fights that went both ways.

    Yes Ali may have beating Cooper, but Marciano beat Charles.
    Or Carman beating the great Ray Robinson.
     
  10. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    Dempsey's ear was cut by Bill Brennan.
    He was also cut over the eye by Tommy Gibbons and apparently cut quite a bit by Tunney.

    Holyfield was definitely bleeding against Larry Holmes.
     
  11. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Not that it changes the fact, but wasn't that from an elbow of the glasses wearing boxer?
     
  12. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    That is definitely an example where the white fighter cut easier than the black one..... but that doesn't mean it is true in general.
     
  13. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    Possibly. I cant remember.
     
  14. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    Well, it's perhaps notable that the "black guys cut less easily" myth came up in the second half of the 20th century, when there were less poor white Americans taking up boxing. If your talent-pool consists of Chuck Wepner, Gerry Cooney and Peter McNeeley, there's going to be a lot of blood spilt.

    Furthermore, look at Monzon's face. His cheekbones are low, and there are no sharp boney edges for his eyebrows to cut off of. In fact, now I look at him, he looks a lot like Bonavena.
     
  15. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    Yet Lewis was also cut in that fight; it was just that he was lucky enough to have it in a less compromising part of his face. Also, you have to take account the gulf in talent there: it's natural that a lesser white boxer would look bad after being in with a superior (albeit faded) black boxer.