Dempsey, Liston, Holyfield, Frazier.

Holy **** this thread is long gonna have to read it through tommorow.

My list which factors head to head at best and resume

1. Liston
2. Frazier
3. Holyfield
4. Dempsey

These guys are all close though. I wouldn't mind seeing Holy above Smokin Joe, probably see some good cases for it when I look through. Dempsey was a force of nature but suffers from inactivity and not having enough worthy challengers on his record imo to put him above. If you're ranking dominance at best Dempsey has a case.
The only guy Liston ever lost to until he was old as **** was the greatest heavyweight ever. Marty Marshall hardly counts imo, Liston showed who was boss in the rematches and it was an awesome learning fight for him, the kind guys don't often have today. Sonny was maybe the most complete boxer puncher ever. Him and Louis.

 

yes I will take that on board. Evander is a drugs cheat. he is a great fighter but maybe his longevity was tarnished with this and the fact he wasnt regarded as the beat HW at any point in his time.

Bit confused with this bit. Dempsey avoided the draft but what has that got to do with boxing? he did sign for harry wills.

its all down to personal choice. my quibble with liston is he had one good year where he was regarded as the best then things became quite tarnished.

 

:good haha. I will have to work on that!

 

Quite a few?

Who do you think would beat him? I'm just curious because I think he looked fantastic.

 

Liston was not shot but you could argue he was inactive and rusty about the time he faced clay, much as dempsey was about the time he lost to tunney.

 

Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Holmes, prime Dokes, prime Witherspoon, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Wlad,... probably many more, especially someone who can cut off the ring better than that mummy Liston, or who has quick counters... This is the same Clay who struggled with Jones and then was almost KO'd by that lightheavy Cooper in his two previous fights. He improved immensely after, and probably because of, this first fight with Liston.

 

two simularly gifted fighters in that they were both underprepared for tougher fights because a lot of good opponents couldnt give them enough rounds.

 

Seamus, Cooper was a big wake up call for Clay for obvious reasons. Clay realized why he got knocked down due to his own failures in direspecting his opponent and getting too cocky inside that ring re his predictions. Notice v liston then patterson he was not making these same mistakes - even tho he predicted round 8, he woulda knocked liston out in round 3 if it was possible. Time to start taking his fights seriously. Ali could be his own worse enemy sometimes but when he was on it he was special.

 

This should seem very sound to those who have only seen the fights you refer to on Boxrec.

By that same logic you can say that the Holmes who beat Shavers (first fight) would lose to most good HWs, seeing the mediocre fighters he strugggled with right before that fight. Fortunately you can just look at Holmes in that fight to see that it was one of his very top perfomances. Same with Clay-Liston. Try it out, why don't you...