Dempsey, Liston, Holyfield, Frazier.

Joe would be one of the few who would not be intimidated by Sonny.




(That wouldn't save him, though.)

 

No, the absence of fear wouldn't save him. His left hook would. :tong Frazier TKO7 Liston. Liston on his stool before the round begins "I-I-I don't understand. I blinded him with my special move and everything. Ow, my shoulder! He hit me with a left hook on my shoulder! I need more stuff for my special move or it will ruin my shoulder!" :-(

 

Dempsey
Liston
Frazier
Holyfield

 

Dempsey has the stuff to take each and every one. And I think Dempsey faced better fighters. You just aren't thought that highly by so many really intelligent ring people to not be near as great as they claim.

 

With Liston's reach and jab, I'm not sure Joe would have the chance to land many left hooks.

And Liston had devastating power.

Joe would be in for a rough night.

 

Bingo.


You get the prize.

(If we're talking greatest HWs).



If we're just talking greatest, I could see elevating Holy somewhat. Maybe to the top.

 

Its not a black mark, machen was one of the best heavyweights in the world at that time but I think Liston was simply an outstanding contender in 1960 alone, not an "uncrowned champion" for a number of years. The wins recorded in 1959 and 1960 Liston was eclipsed by the title winning efforts of ingo and patterson. in 1961 liston simply marked time against nobodys until he got a shot in 1962 off the back of what he did in 1960. Wining against floyd proved liston was without doubt the best in the world, but he had to beat him to do it. until then he was an outstanding contender who beat harris beter than the current champion but had not beat machen as well as the ex champion had.

 

Commentator:

"Frazier's easily going under Liston's jab and his reach is working against him! I think his shoulder's hurt! Frazier's giving Liston a hiding! He's broken his jaw worse than Marty Marshall did! Liston looks confused! He looks scared! Frazier's smiling! What did he say? I couldn't understand him through the mouthpiece. It sounded like "Blindness don't work on me, scambooga!" What's a scamburger? He's asking for more! Liston doesn't have anymore! Oh! Another left hook puts Sonny on the canvas, looking nothing like the destroyer we thought he was! He's saying his shoulder is hurt! But he's not bothering to get up! Seventh round TKO for Smokin' Joe Frazier! Poor Liston! I think he slipped on his own urine! Ohhhhh...that's embarrassing."

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In that case...


Dempsey
Liston
Frazier
Holyfield

 

You do know you're in the classic forum, right? Footage and facts means little compared to reports about Jeffries batttling Godzilla and Dempsey regularily beating up bears during his days as a hobo hardman.:smoke

Anyhow, I don't quite agree with you about Dempsey concerning skills and record. For his time, I think he showed very good skills, modernizing the sport in terms of controlled aggression. His record ain't bad either, mowing down several top contenders and a "champ". At the very least, he was among the top 2 HWs during a period of 6-7 years.

I would probably have him beneath the other three, though. Holyfield and Frazier have the top 2 places among them, and then Liston and then Dempsey.

 

fair post. it depends on how highly he scores with the other criteria. but based on resume alone, he isn't at the top. his legacy though is quite impressive, if only because people STILL consider him among the greatest ever. that has to count for something

 

Resume
Holy
Frazier
Liston
Dempsey

Dominance
Dempsey
Liston
Frazier
Holy

Legacy
Holy
Frazier
Liston
Dempsey

Peak H2H
Holy (50/50 with Frazier, favoured over others; Dempsey has no chance)
Liston (beats Frazier, loses to Holy, destroys Dempsey)
Frazier (50/50 with Holy, loses to Liston, destroys Dempsey)
Dempsey (gets his ass whupped by all 3)