Dempsey or Wladmir Klitschko

To suggest that Wladimir Klitschko could take the measure of Jack Dempsey isn't ludicrous, but to favour him is an ugly stance to take.

Supposing for a moment that Wladimir possesses a granite jaw he's still going to have real problems, as Jack callously swoops in, on the inside, and with the pace.

Dempsey's style was designed to slip inside the giants probing left.

As we all know Wladimir owns a breakable jaw, couple that with an inherent fear of being rushed and the prospect of a young Jack Dempsey on the front foot, with that respectable reach, with that clever punch selection, with that knack for finishing what he starts...the path to destruction seems to be clearly defined.

Legacy is up for interpretation, but head-to-head?

The cold truth is that Wladimir wouldn't know what to do with Dempsey, like a virgin in chemistry been given a few kilos of francium to handle. On the contrary, 6,7, rely on the jab, jump into clinches...the reverse is ugly, and early.

 

A bob and weave, slip and counter style will overcome a slow moving target with mainly a 1-2 punch output.

 

If Dempsey has this world class head movement I'd agree but I don't see it on film despite reading about it in reports.

 

I am going to hold my breath and wait for the next free-swinging, off balanced 190 pounder holding his hands by his waist who takes over the division (and is allowed to sit on the title for 3 years, avoid all black contenders and the two biggest threats to his crown).

 

You know that this man and his diminuitive Italian brother will rule the division for the next decade right?

 

:good:good:good

 

off balanced? When Dempsey misses he ducks straight away I've never seen him almost fall ovre himself.Free swinging?huh??where.Hands low doesn't matter when a man is moving that fast,constant pressure and as fast as that.

If Dempsey was to fight Wladimir he would constant bull rush him making Wladimir panic. Wladimir doesn't have the feet of Holmes,Tate,Ali,Tunney,Loughran to able to set up his fight. Wlad would be worn down while Dempsey still has the energy to continue the harassment, Dempsey is faster,better on his feet,more energetic,chin,smarter fighter,better combination puncher,better every apart from the jab. Tunney had to keep running back Wladimir can't do that all night and Tunney jab is hell of a lot faster then Wlads.

 

Dempsey wins via KO by poison..??? That's how far you are up Wlads ass.

 

Dempsey was tough to hit with a jab. Aa for guy his size not going for title, it's due to everyone getting crazy with bodybuilding. If Dempsey were around past 20 years, he's be 22-230---and worse cause of it. Fighters of Dempsey era, in fact, people of his era were way tougher. Dempsey was tough guy in tough era, and I'll take him at 190 over Klitschko. Up till cruiserwieght division was established, there were fighters competing at 185-190's in heavyweights, and doing well.

 

This world class bob and weave that Dempsey apparently possesses?

Most of his wins seem to be reckless pressure paying off.

 

You're defending a the guy who turns up to hug, clinch, spoil, foul, jab, headlock, run away against guys smaller and weaker than him.. yeah?

 

Shame this fight ain't available to watch:

“The Dempsey fight against Fulton was the finest exhibition of the fighting art that I have ever seen, for Dempsey didn’t waste a single movement in the short time it lasted. His action was the soul of simplicity. And fighting effectiveness isn’t in the step-and-tap-and-block taught by boxing instructors, but in direct action along the lines of mechanical force.

“Bob Fitzsimmons was the greatest master of that. And if this Dempsey lad continues as he has begun, he will eclipse even the great Bob.”

Emphasising Dempsey’s economy of movement, Edgren noted that the Mauler covered the minimum of ground in the short time it took him to bomb out Fulton. Jack was careful to come out of his corner a little slower than big Fred. Dempsey had advanced just four or five short steps as Fulton met him and missed with a jab. Jack moved forward one step. Fulton tried to tie him up, but as Dempsey wrenched his arms free he fired a left upwards to Fulton’s head. The punch travelled no more than a foot but jerked Fred’s head back and shook him badly. The big man moved out to long range and started backing up towards the ropes. He managed to get a lock on Dempsey’s arms for a few seconds before breaking away and retreating across the ring to his own corner. Jack pivoted and advanced three or four steps to within hitting range. It was then that Robert Edgren observed something that intrigued him.

“Dempsey has a trick of shifting that is similar to that of Fitzsimmons and Stanley Ketchel, except that Jack doesn’t reverse his footing but merely drops his left shoulder back beyond the right and then puts the pivoting swing of his whole body into a two-foot blow.

“Dropping that left shoulder back, Dempsey drove his left fist into Fulton’s body. It was a tremendous blow and Fulton caved in at the waist. Instantly Dempsey whipped another left up to Fulton’s head, knocking him over sideways, and quicker than a flash shot his straight right across to Fulton’s jaw. Fulton fell, completely knocked out, struck in a half-hitting position, neck against the ropes and went on until he lay flat on his shoulder blades.”

 

I'm not defending him, I have no reason to.

I'm asking if there's any decent footage which demostrates this head movement I always hear about.

 

It's interesting that the big guys of his time tried to tie him up but weren't strong enough despite being much heavier.


Would be interesting hearing Magna's take on that. If jack was too strong to be tied up, if he was able to free his hands as he did vs Willard, Fulton and firpo, would wlad still be a favourite?

 

There is no H2H argument here. Wlad wins.

Debate is about who is greater, which is a more complex question that has to take in a number of factors. Career wise, Wlad's proven himself over a longer period of time against a wider range of opponents than Dempsey, and still has a few years left in which to improve his standing.

Dempsey has the weight of history though, and greatness is very often dependent on image and public perception. Too many people hold a poor opinion of Wlad to give him the sort of legendary status that Dempsey has achieved in the years to come.