Dempsey or Wladmir Klitschko

He ducked plenty. You're uneducated.

 

No it wouldn't because ottke didnt ever dominate the division.

 

Neither has Wlad.

 

Holmes needed Cooney for his biggest payday. I remember watching Holmes make some of his most memorable defenses on Saturday afternoon network TV earning chump change in the process.

Does this makes Holmes unworthy of the the IBHOF?

 

Are you comparing Wlad to Larry Holmes in terms of greatness and Wlad being more deserving of HOF status?

 

I'm using your own criteria, oh, ill-informed one.

 

He's the clear number one and a huge favourite over anyone who steps in the ring with him

A prestige he's held for 7 years.

That's dominance.

 

I think he's talking about Vitali being the clear #2 and Wlad (rightfully) getting a pass for not fighting him, while others would not get away with it.

 

The best name on his record in 7 years is David Haye and that fight took years of Haye chasing Wlad to be made.....If big bro hadn't tapped out on his stool against Byrd and gifted him the IBF belt Wlad would not of fought for and won it from a shot to **** Byrd.....He got everything handed to him on a platter and these things dont go un-noticed when evaluating the worth of a fighter.

 

And if every champ bad burns wouldn't have drawn the colour line history might be completely different.

If Patterson would have fought Williams, Liston,Folley or Machen he might not have been as meaningful a champ.

If Ali hadn't have had his title stripped Frazier might never have been champ.

If Holmes would have wanted to unify he might not have made so many defences.

History is full of fighters who took a shot when it was offered and failed to fight certain people. In the case of wlad he got his shot and took it against the man rated number 1 in light of vitali's retirement. the only people he hasn't yet fought who I'd like him too are povetkin and arreola, both of whom he has tried to fight in the past.

 

Totally irrelevant comparision. They have great accolades to their name. Wlad does not.

 

Such a false circular argument I'm not even gonna waste my time.

 

My point is i cant see him being inducted into HOF for fighting in a **** division with the help of his brother...Automatic induction just for dominance doesn't exsit , Ottke and Calzaghe being an example.

 

ottke didnt dominante. At the end of his reign calzaghe did and he will be a lock for the hof.

Wlad had dominated and will also make the hof. This is such a pointless debate as five years after he retires we'll see him either inducted or not.

The purpose of this thread is comparing Dempsey and wlad in an atg sense. I think wlad has done more as champion than Dempsey just not in as spectacular a fashion. Both suffered embarrassing early losses, both worked their way to mandatories against the top rated HW, both took that shot and spend the next 7 years atop the division. Both had a top contender who beat opposition they did not. However wlad is more active, defended against more highly rated opponents, showed a willingness to fight men of colour and he is still going strong. In a multi belt era wlad defeated 4 current belt holders and beat the man who would go on to hold the fifth. He is likely to fight a 6th belt holder at some point this year.

For these reasons I place wlad higher than Dempsey which is the debate the thread is aimed for. I'm not gonna waste time discussing whether or not wlad/calzaghe will make the hall. If you rank Dempsey higher, justify it.

 

What highly rated opponents?
There is nobody out there. The division is terrible. Because they are ranked top 10 means absolutely nothing.
Nobody watches HW boxing because the talent pool is so shallow.
Proof of this is the unified champ fighting on obscure channels nobody has.
Its getting better with some decent fighters emerging but Wlad isn't fighting any of them.
He doesn't and wont rank above Dempsey by default of a dead division and splitting it with his brother.