Dempsey vs Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Dec 12, 2015.

  1. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Messages:
    12,227
    Likes Received:
    1,247
    I don't think Liston was slow at his 1958 peak and I don't see one advantage that Dempsey has
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    80,274
    Likes Received:
    20,972
    "Dempsey in his muscular prime was described as "amazingly strong", and contrary to your bias was one tough son of a ***** in the trenches."

    Yes that is a new low Burt.
     
  3. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    18,285
    Likes Received:
    395
    Just fighting fire with fire L.
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    80,274
    Likes Received:
    20,972
    You used the word bias first.

    You then said the use of the word bias was a new low.

    You then said you fight fire with fire, despite the fact I only responded to your insult.
     
  5. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    3,718
    THAT is a new low?? How about all the posters you have accused of being "haters"... simply because they don't agree with you? And then you get offended, because someone calls you biased!
     
  6. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    18,285
    Likes Received:
    395
    LUF, this is the first time on this thread where the word BIAS was USED
    and YOU used it FIRST...I responded to this adjective you hurled my way...Using your word "bias" takes away every posters personal opinions and it is dead wrong...
     
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    80,274
    Likes Received:
    20,972
    You are flat out lying. Look at the post you sent to me first on this thread, I'll quote it for you next.
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    80,274
    Likes Received:
    20,972
    Take a look at your own words Burt.
     
  9. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    18,285
    Likes Received:
    395
    Luf, it seems I did use the adjective word "bias" first, so I apologize.
    Twenty lashes will be my punishment. OUCH !
     
  10. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    42,723
    Likes Received:
    264
    He didn't really have a jab at all, it wasn't in his ****nal even if his fans will pinpoint the single short straight left he throw 1 out of 500 punches. He actually didn't believe in it as a punch because it wasn't damaging. It was to his detriment in several fights ofcourse, see Tunney, Miske 1, Brennan.

    The jab isn't there to be damaging alone, although it can be. It's there to control an opponent, beat them to the punch and take away their jab. It's there to defend yourself too.

    And yes he was quick enough to get away without a jab against the men he beat but it's when the opposition get quicker and technically better he has a problem.
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    80,274
    Likes Received:
    20,972
    The Gibbons fight shows him bullying behind a solid jab does it not?

    Well for someone like Dempsey you will always need enough power to gauge his respect and youll need accuracy to exploit his defensive issues.

    The clip of him slipping that combo against Tunney is unreal though and it makes me question his abilities as much as watching him walk into a huge right from Firpo.
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    80,274
    Likes Received:
    20,972
    Hence the short response to you. You can't dismiss everyone who questions Dempsey footage as being biased or haters.

    Especially if that person is saying Dempsey would be wise to avoid trading punches with none other than Sonny Liston.
     
  13. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2004
    Messages:
    29,389
    Likes Received:
    36,047
    All of the above may be true, but inquiring minds want to know:

    Do you have liver spots?
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,454
    Likes Received:
    26,962
    Ironically things seem to have started going wrong for Dempsey when he started using the jab more, later in his career.

    During his prime, his opponents had no idea what he was going to do, until his hook landed.

    What you perhaps haven’t got your head around, is that officiators back then often didn’t score jabs.

    If you look at somebody like Panama al Brown, they look a lot like a modern fighter, except that they often don’t lead with the jab.
     
  15. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    18,285
    Likes Received:
    395
    Luf, I am not demeaning the ability of a Sonny Liston pre-Ali. Not at all. Further more I believe that the heavyweights of the Ali prime era were the best group of heavyweight era. I have always posted this belief. Where I differ from many on ESB who utter rubbish that a prime Dempsey and my man Joe Louis were "too small" for today's
    dreadnaughts ,it irks me no end...These two great heavyweights thrived on bigger, stronger, slower men as their records attest to.
    It was the more agile smaller men as a Tommy Gibbons, Gene tunney, Bob Pastor, Billy Conn, Jersey Joe Walcott etc, who gave them the most trouble in the ring...Excess weight can make a heavyweight more powerful but it also takes away speed, flexibility and stamina...Nature in her wisdom has a way of giving and taking.