Dempsey vs Norton

Especially since the available footage suggests that this was often Willard's mo. When he gets attacked by aggressive fighters, he basically walks back, front foot first, while flailing away with arm punches or keeping his arms too low. This wasn't just one "gotcha" clip.

 

You said it was an "embarrassingly awful" way to box. But ok, fair enough.

 

Wanna see how Tysons opponents walk back from his rushes?

 

Opponents who were widely regarded as world class? Sure, why not?

 

But real talk though: Just to be clear, when you watch Willard fight and see his technique, do you really not see significant flaws? Things that could be fixed and improved upon with good coaching and preparation in the gym? Just curious.

PS - And I'm not just talking about changes so that he "follows the rules" that you often seem to roll your eyes at. I mean actual substantive improvements.

 

Lewis:
https://streamable.com/45vd
https://streamable.com/ngmu

Smith:
https://streamable.com/j5n6

Spinks:
https://streamable.com/3pm7


I looked at 5 minutes of footage over 3 fights, and found examples in all of them.


Footwork doesn't always look so hot under pressure.

 

He doesn't have drastic flaws. But there is always room for improvement.

He does a lot of things I really don't like, but those flaws are inherent to his body size. And most SHWs share those flaws. Which is the inability to have swift ring generalship. Requiring more time to throw punches and pull them back. Hands low, awkward covering up, and more.

Lennox Lewis always had awkward footing when he had to hop around to avoid pressure. So I can call that a flaw, but I understand it's inherent in his body type. So it's relative.

Compared to Muhammad Ali, Willards ring generalship absolutely sucks. But compared to your average pro, it's awesome.

I think Willards main weakness was a psychological one, not a physical one. I think his lack of motivation lead to inconsistencies in his performances. I also think he holds back too much. With his size and power I think he could've initiated more exchanges. I don't think he utilized his power to it's full potential.

All in all I think Willard could teach us all more about boxing than we could teach him. Someone like Stewart could refine Willard further, and squeeze some extra ability out of him.

 

Willard was in fine condition. Dempsey said it himself. Even if Willard was slightly out of shape, a 65 lb/6inch height advantage would have been more than enough. I'm not usually one to play the size card but when one guy is in 5 lbs of light heavyweight you have to at least address it.

 

He had only fought 10 rounds in 4 years and was 37 years old. He had scant few decent wins on his resume outside of being an aged, hogfat Johnson in a war of attrition. He was wildly overconfident. You can not ignore these facts.

 

Bingo!

 

Missed your reply somehow. You think all of these look as bad as Willard's footwork in the clips we've been discussing? I realize that you're not big on fundamentals but there's a pretty big difference big difference between taking a bad step/being temporary off-balance or out of position vs. doing what Willard did. And just to be clear, what are the fundamental flaws in Spinks' footwork or Lewis' in the second clip?

 

Any decent trainer would be able to sharpen his game considerably--it would take a Manny Steward. I think he has a number of flaws -- his footwork, the way he leans in and pushes his punches, that terrible straight right to the body from out of position, his loose guard (given what appears to be mediocre reflexes/coordination), etc. -- would be serious liabilities against good heavyweights with modern training and skills.

 

https://streamable.com/twaz

BTW, I just opened the Tyson fight, flipped to a random round and immediately came across this sequence, which is a much better representation of the diverse ways in which Lennox Lewis deals with pressure. He does a ton of things in this clip that Willard couldn't dream of doing. He's operating at a much, much higher level than Willard because of his huge advantages in both skill and athleticism.

https://streamable.com/twaz

 

They're way worse. The Willard example he actually successfully blocks the incoming attacks.

Alright Kevin. Keep reverting to your "you don't know fundamentals" argument. Seems to be your only excuse when I provide actual proof to shut down your idiotic and hypocritical theories.

To be clear, I never said those were flaws. You did. I just showed you examples of modern fighters doing the exact same "embarrassingly awful" thing you criticized Willard of doing.

 

But they didn't do the exact same embarrassingly awful thing that I criticized Willard for doing. What am I missing? This is a sincere question.

And you say they were actually "way worse" than Willard's technique? I've been trying to lay off criticizing your stubborn lack of appreciation for technique but you make it hard sometimes. The funny thing is that you actually reveal it most clearly at times when you try to offer modern examples of the things that you think we're criticizing in older fighters.