Dempsey vs Quarry

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by TBI, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    However, we can not leave the Ali victory from the equation. It is a better victory than Dempsey had and it is that by quite a distance. Please do not compare an old, out of service Willard to a close to prime Ali. And to say Jack came close to Tunney does no real service (is Tunney even a Top 20 head to head heavy?) if we can conversely say that Frazier came close (some think more than close) to beating Ali the second and third times around.

    You say that Foster never beat a good heavy. However, I only included him because you can't make a list of Dempsey's top 5 victories without including Gibbons, who was also a lightheavy and who also didn't do anything at heavyweight.

    I do not favor Sharkey over Ellis or Quarry or even Bonavena. But fine, if Sharkey is the best of Dempsey's victims, here we have Dempsey's list: Sharkey, Willard, Fulton, Gibbons, Miske. And here we have Frazier's: Ali, Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena, Bugner. Head to head, I am taking the latter by country mile.
     
  2. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    To be fair the Ali win is possibly the best in history. Most great fighters best wins won't match up to it.
     
  3. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No blow out here....tough, brutal fight that Dempsey win due to better defensive skills.
    His "figure 8" head bob would be enough to avoid most of Quarry's heavy punches.
     
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  4. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I thought the thread is about Quarry versus Dempsey. Quarry lost badly twice to Frazier. Losing badly to someone doesn't make anyone good. My point is that the second-stringers of the 1960's, the guys who were not Ali, Frazier, or Liston, are not all that impressive. In 11 fights against Ali, Frazier, and Liston, the best of these second-stringers, Ellis, Quarry, and Patterson, went 0-11 with 11 KO defeats. None of those 11 fights were particularly competitive. So any tangential attempt to use Ali or Frazier to prop up Quarry just doesn't work for me.

    I don't see Quarry as being as good as Tunney or even Sharkey, so Dempsey's efforts in 1927 when past his best weigh in for my picking him over Quarry.

    My take is Quarry would have had a shot at being champion back in the 1920's, but I still think he would have come up short. In his own era he had no chance.

    *aside--I rate Frazier above Dempsey, and have sympathy for your take on Joe, but Joe is not Jerry.
     
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  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't rate Mike Tyson's, Sonny Liston's or Rocky Marciano's resumes as high as Joe Frazier's but that no reason to doubt they'd mash Quarry up in similarly brutal fashion.
     
  6. BlackPanther(Comics)

    BlackPanther(Comics) Member banned Full Member

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    Jerry Quarry was a slightly bigger but far more skilled. The era Dempsey fought in was a joke skill wise. Jerry Quarry fought and beat far superior fighters to Dempsey. I don't mean historically speaking. I mean in actual skills.

    Quarry by early KO with normal boxing gloves and with 4 once horse hair gloves a even more brutal early round KO.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Dempsey's era included:
    Loughran
    Greb
    Walker
    Gibbons
    Weinert
    Tunney
    Leonard
    Tendler
    Miller
    Taylor
    Villa
    Mandell
    Smith
    Delaney
    Genaro
    LaBarba
    Slattery
    Shade
    Chocolate
    McLarnin
    Canzoneri
    Brown
    Petrolle
    etc Were they jokes?
     
  8. BlackPanther(Comics)

    BlackPanther(Comics) Member banned Full Member

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    Wow you named names. You clearly are a huge boxing fans with tons of boxing knowledge. Every guy you named were jokes compared to modern fighters. 90 percent of the guys weren't even heavyweights by modern standards. Again people like you who don't know a damn thing about boxing. You love to use but for their era or historically speaking. I don't play that game, I use real world logic. Boxing has evolved into a sport where the guys have extreme talents. The guys you named were just good fighters in a joke era.

    Harry Greg 160
    Mickey Walker weighed 150 or less for 93 of his fighters
    Tommy Gibbons 160 to 170 or so for most of his fights.
    Gene Tunney 170 pounds for most of his fights

    Shall I continue? Even if I did you wouldn't be able to get it. Boxing has weight classes for a reason. I know that is too hard for you to comprehend.

    Quarry for heavyweights and beat them. Dempsey fought for the most part middleweights, light heavyweights and cruiserweights. The guys who were "heavyweights" by modern standards were a joke. Basic combinations like people throw now were unheard of back then. A guy like Foreman who people called sloppy has SSR level of skills compared to the guys back then.

    If boxing is too hard for you to understand then maybe pick a easier sport to follow. I know you think if you watch boxing it will make you feel like a man but your level of boxing knowledge just makes you look like a fool.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  9. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I've never seen a Willard story like that nor have I heard Sharkey say in any serious manner that Jack hit harder than Joe. If he did I'd like to see it ..
     
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I see Dempsey hurting him pretty badly .. not a good match up for Jerry. Jack was faster, hit harder and just much better .. Jerry got hit too much ..
     
  11. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I found an article from the mid 50's years ago where Sharkey was asked to compare Dempsey and Louis punching power. He stated that Dempsey punch for punch was the harder hitter. He went on to say "he never thought anyone could hit that hard" continuing ..... "when Dempsey hit you on your shoulder he broke your shoulder. When he hit you in the body it felt as if his fist came out your back. When he hit you on your hip he dislocated your hip."

    I was surprised that Sharkey chose Dempsey as the harder puncher as I always heard Sharkey never had picked one over the other in that regard. However it was there in black and white.
     
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  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The story regarding Willard in his later years asking reporters/visitors to feel his face to show the damage Dempsey had done ("feel those bones moving around?") is widely known.
     
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  13. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ottawa Journal March 1963

    Yet Willard, gentle as he is in many ways, has steadfastly stuck by his charge of being victimized in the Dempsey fight. When the short bout ended,-Willard was terribly beaten. One aide of his face was caved In, his jawbone broken. He's never changed or relented. ....MOBSTERS JOBBED ME! The 80-year-old Willard. repeated his version. "I was Jobbed. Them mobster jobbed me. I put all of em in the same category Rickard, Kearns, the labor man they appointed as my trainer. They wouldn't let me train. They kept me awake all night. And then they used cement on Dempsey." "Sure. it was cement. You don't suppose a little squirt of cement would do lots of damage on my face do you? Feel my face here. Do you feel that bone moving around? That's what Dempseys left glove did to my face. It was completely caved in". FISTS TOO HEAVY TO LIFT? "No glove fist done that!" he exclaimed. "You notice he knocked me down in the first round and then-couldn't even lift his fists the other two." "I was beat all to hell I had to go to the hospital. My wife got to the fight in enough time to see those mobsters jobbing me it was the worst thing she said she ever saw and I wish she hadn't."
     
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  14. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    After Louis passed jack was able to be more up front with certain opinions such as Louis..Dempsey opinions...he always said Dempsey was the hardest hitter he fought... this can be read in the NY times following the Louis bout...Dempsey vs quarry Dempsey would ko him much like a miske or Brennan bout imo
     
  15. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Interesting find....1963 article Clarion Ledger Jackson Mississippi.

    Interview with Willard. Some have claimed Willard drove himself back home from Toledo. This is not true. In this article Willard and his wife state they planned to drive home after the bout but instead took the train. Willard was surprised that at the various stops many came out to shout out his name. "I never thought anyone would want to see me again."

    Willard again reiterates that the left side of his face was caved in from Dempseys blows.
     
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