What do you think? Foreman weighed, what 216 at peak? Dempsey weighs 185 ish, is it? So, there's a difference in weight. There is also a huge difference in speed, Dempsey is by far the faster fighter. And he can bang. Foreman is underated as a mover, but Dempsey has great footwork. Foreman is underated as an accurate puncher, I think, but Dempsey is really, really hard to hit on the way in. Foreman telegraphs his punhces and Dempsey looks like a good timer of his man. Sure, Foreman can hit hard enough to hurt Dempsey, but isn't that what we call a punchers chance? Dempsey would finish the job that Lyle started, and bang George down and out early doors.
Dempsey gets eviscerated. Sorry, Mcgrain...Foreman's jab, and sneaky uppercuts are bound to catch Jack on the way in; for the Manassa Mauler's defense just isn't as good as you make it out to be. This is Foreman-Frazier all over again...except, I'm not certain if Dempsey hears the bell to end the first round. Just a horrible match-up in terms of styles.
Why is Foreman "bound to catch him", and what do you think is happening in the mean time? Frazier and Dempsey are opposites in terms of the nature of their approach, so the re-run you're describing is one of the least likely outcomes, in my opinion.
While I agree with this analysis I am not as confident of the outcome as you. Foreman is not catching Dempsey with any jab or sneaky uppercut and he is going to be getting trounced but if he lands something big Dempsey is going to be going in the wrong direction when it happens. On paper this is clear cut but in reality anything can happen.
Sure. This is one of the few cases where it counts for something. Dempsey makes a mistake and catches a Foreman bomb comig forward. He will still be in the fight but Foreman might well be able to finish him now. All being equal Dempsey takes it. If Foreman wins it is like Dempsey Firpo with Firpo winning after being knocked down repeatedly.
I agree, Dempsey would dismantle Foreman in quick time. Foreman proved not difficult to stun with straight sharp punches v. Ali and v. Lyle. I think Dempsey would bounce around on his toes, jolt him with devastating rights and rip into his body. Foreman's a beast himself though, and he might bull Dempsey into a blow-for-blow trading contest like he did with Lyle. Foreman's best weapon to do so is the uppercut, he might catch Dempsey and get Jack's attention. One thing I did notice studying the Dempsey-Firpo fight though is that Dempsey finished Firpo off with a disciplined couple of punches, a left hook followed by an exquisite long straight right down the pipe. Fighting in an instinctual haze, he wasn't wild with his delivery. And that wasn't a peak Dempsey.
In the meantime, Dempsey is charging forward relentlessly, directly into range of Foreman's bombs. The times that Foreman was hurt, or defeated early in his career was when he was moving forward. I don't care how good Dempsey's defensive ability was (and honestly, I think it's pretty overrated), or how good his movement was on the way in (another fairly overrated aspect of the man's game, imo), Foreman's going to get his shots off if Dempsey moves forward...and Dempsey's not going to be able to take them.
I understand your position. What I will say is that Dempsey doesn't charge so much as glide, his head movement has little or no rythym (see Frazier for head movement that carries more rythym). I agree with you that Foreman will win if he catches Dempsey clean, but you see this as inevitable - I see it as pretty unlikely - especially as the open, slow fisted Foreman is going to be getting hit pretty hard with serious combinations for a great deal of the time where he isn't scoring.
Dempsey chooses him time, comes in and catches Foreman with a left hook but is caught with a monstrous right uppercut from Foreman. It is Holyfield vs Bowe all over from there with the smaller man not being able to take what he wants to dish out. Only this one ends within a few rounds. After the fight, reporters comment on the unfairness of this matchup and suggest the creation of a cruiserweight division.
Ah, but even though Dempsey has the edge in terms of hand and foot speed, Foreman could still do some nice, tricky things, even when he was younger. Watch the way he would nudge a fighter backward, and pop him with a short little jab to set up a flurry of uppercuts. Watch him maneuver Frazier to the side, and club him with shots to the body. At some point, those seemingly innocous shots are going to add up, and force Dempsey to slow down even slightly...and when that happens, the results won't be pretty.
Some verry interesting observations. I always knew I was obviously missing something about Foreman. Still it is a mistake to compare Dempsey to Frazier stylisticaly.
It's not "an edge", bro, it's a chasm. It is one of the biggest differences in key areas that you could see between any two ATG heavyweights. Factor in the distance on their respective punches and it's almost funny. I think i'm right in saying that he was taught this by Archie Moore? It worked to a degree, but as soon as he was fatigued, as soon as he was stunned it became pawing, pushing and pawing, begging to be counter-punched, Ali did it best ofcourse. It's fine when it works, this, but a total joke when it doesn't.