Dempsey would destroy Foreman

Would've the same happened to an exhausted Marciano or Tyson? Ali was far past it in the Foreman fight, and don't give me any crap about that suggesting how great Ali was. The only thing it should cause us to question is; How great was Foreman against other ATG PRIME HWs?

 

Ali would not have fought Marciano with that strategy. It certainly would not have worked against Marciano, who seemingly didn't tire.

And Ali was NOT far past it at that point. He was certainly past prime (1964- 1967) but not FAR past it. He still had the third frazier fight a year into his future, at that point.

After Manila, he WAS far past it.

(BTW, I have to disagree with John on a small point. IMO, Rocky hit harder than Tyson).

 

Totally different fighters, and nobody is calling their chins suspect, as you are Foreman. Who is to say what Frazier's big left hook may have done to either?

Ali fought the perfect fight against Foreman considering his age and abilities.

What about Marciano then? He never fought any, not in my book. Foreman did well against a great prime Holyfield considering his age. He took apart the borderline Norton and Frazier while losing to Ali first career. Frazier wasn't as bad off as some lead us to believe.

 

Well yes I have watched it, believe it or not. It was a silly strategy by Ali that happened to work. I'm only concerned with Foreman's chin vs Ali's less than stellar punches at that point in time. Ali was basically washed up, yet he could still KO Foreman... Dead on his feet or not, that still causes me to wonder about his chin.

Tyson and Marciano are very similar regarding punching power. Tyson was even a bit better at throwing combinations. Cooney hit very hard, but nothing like a Marciano or Tyson in my view. Regarding Dempsey, I think he can destroy Foreman on a bad night for Foreman. This is mainly based upon what I still feel is a questionable chin regarding Foreman... I only give Demp a 10% chance, and that is being very generous.

 

It would've bounced off of Marciano's chin. Tyson could take it to a point, but maybe not as well as Marciano in the longer term. Was Frazier at 100% in the Foreman fight, John?

I agree. Ali was washed up, yet he was still able to KO Foreman. That looks a little funny regarding Foremans ability to take a punch, especially since that particular puncher wasn't all that great in their prime.

 

Yeah, him and Frazier were def at their primes for that one. Neither were in reality. I think the two did more damage to each other than has ever been dealt out in HW boxing history during the first fight.

Both are two of the greatest in boxing history.... I still hate Ali :smoke

 

While we are on the subject a review of Dempseys restaraunt.


Tips on Tables - Robert W. Dana - August 1, 1949

Jack Dempsey's Is Notable For Special Dishes

A visit to Jack's neat little two-room Italian-American restaurant at 344 W. 46th St., almost always starts with a cocktail or aperitif at the tiny bar to the right as you enter, for the word has been bruited about over the years how excellent are the concoctions mixed, stirred and shaken by Al Vadelfi, former boxer. Always a tray of glasses to his left, being iced for the perfect drink. Chianto bottles hanging from an archway lend additional atmosphere.

While sipping your drink - if indeed you do stop at the bar - you might be interested in following the lead of many customers in ordering fresh chopped chicken livers, served hot on toast for 75 cents.

Then to your able for the rest of the meal, be it a whopping big sirloin steak (for which the house is famous) with baked potato, French fried onions and mixed green salad ($4.50) or one of the lesser-priced items, but equally tasty, such as Long Island duckling bigarade with candied sweets and apple sauce and salad ($2.50), veal cutlet parmigiana ($1.75) chicken cacciatora ($2.25), sliced chicken with broccoli au gratin ($1.75) or roast Virginia ham with candied sweets - all with vegetables.

Murals from Hit Shows.

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Jack's was taken over a couple of years ago by Anthony Passeggiato and his charming wife, who previously were well known on the East Side. Because of its nearness to the theaters, last winter they had Malcome Kildale execute colorful murals of scenes from former hit shows for the front room and murals of Italian wine provinces for the back room.

Anthony, although his restaurant is primarily a place for Italian and steak specialties, realizes that some of his customers might like dishes with a touch of the French. For them he has onion soup au gratin, chicken livers en brochette with wild rice (a great favorite for $2) and frogs legs provecale.

Good Seafood Selection.

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There is always a good selection of seafood to sample from the menu such as clams casino, shad roe and boneless shad, soft shell crabs, boiled shrimp maison, mussels marinara, scallops en brochette, curry of shrimp with rice, broiled lobster and lobster fradiavalo.

Desserts aren't played up particularly. There are thing like parfait nesselrode, peach melba, caramel custard, spumoni and bisque tortoni.


Menu Memos: Jack's Restaurant, 344 W. 46th St. Italian American menu, Pietro Cirello, chef. Table d'hote lunch,$1 to $1.75. A la carte dinner, steak with potato, French fried onions and salad $4.50, other entrees including vegetables from $1.25, full meals averaging $3.50. Fine wines and liquors. Closed Sundays.

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Postcard from Dempsey's Restaurant but at the location of Broadway between 49th & 50th Sts. in New York. The illustration above shows Dempsey on the right, crouching and bobbing his way to a heavyweight victory over the giant Jess Willard to win the championship of the world on July 14, 1919. The Willard camp always maintained that Dempsey must have loaded his gloves with something because Willard was so busted up. Since then, a representative from the other boxer's camp is present when a fighter laces his gloves. Before Dempsey, the prominent fighters of the day stood straight up with their knuckles in the down position. Since Dempsey, all fighters adopted the style with knuckles up or sideways. Dempsey was eventually defeated (twice) by Gene Tunney but remained enormously popular throughout his life.​

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I really can't envisage Dempsey making it as far as the mid-rounds. Foreman KO4.

 

I just see a Dempsey that is able to starch Foreman in a round or two on a bad night for Foreman. God knows why, but I think it really could happen.

 

What works for a guy anywhere from 3-1 to 7-1 underdog can't be silly. Ali got home, and got home well.

Ali basically washed up? I think you're just jesting me mate, seriously.

If you can't take on board the susceptibility of a guy dead on his feet under the eatreme circumstances that were Zaire that night then there's not much i can say.

Tyson has a bit more power, his dynamics are superb, his muscle twitch is suited and he has 20 pounds or whatever over Rocky. I think both got the best from their genetics and left nothing on the table. I'll take Tyson's size from that to make him a little harder hitter.

Totally disagree. I reckon you are getting a bit lost via class differences. Cooney's power was extraordinary. Tho aging his exploits speaking strictly power wise vs Young, Norton and Lyle were awesome.

I don't think Dempsey can, personally, and i don't consider Foreman's chin anything but excellent to above. Each to their own tho of course.

 

Yep :good

 

Right on.

I've always believed Dempsey would bust up Foreman. Frazier came chin forward. Dempsey flitted in and out, head tucked away. Frazier only had a predictable left hook. Dempsey could hit the clumsy Foreman with a complete arsenal of blows in combination.

In a word, Dempsey is a puncher who can box, plus with speed, aggressiveness and a chin. Foreman is too sloppy to get himself together before he is dismantled by the Mauler.

 

The way I see the fight is Dempsey is going to have to fight going backwards.

I can not see a realistic way that Dempsey would back Foreman up. George was too big to allow himself to be pushed back by Dempsey. Foreman would come and probably get hit by Dempsey coming in because of Jack's superior speed and footwark but I do not think that is enough to keep Foreman off of him for long.

George would keep coming try to cut Dempsey throwing those big looping shots, even if most of them miss (and they would) Dempsey will still get hit and he'll get hit often I don't think Dempsey could win the fight going backwards.

In my eyes the most likely outcome would be a Foreman KO inside of 4 rounds.