Dempsey would take out Jeffries over any distance; best early HW h2h?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Oct 9, 2011.


  1. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Most of it guesswork but my would look something like this:

    Johnson
    Jeffries
    Dempsey
    Langford
    Fitzsimmons
    Tunney
    Jackson
    Sullivan
    Wills
    Corbett
     
  2. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Dempsey
    Tunney
    Fitz-Langford
    Johnson
    Jackson
    Jeffries
    Corbett
    Sullivan
    Wills
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think Dempsey would have a fair chance of beating just about anybody who preceded him as champion... Jack Johnson is the only one who leaves some hesitation, but as for the rest, I'd make him a clear favorite.
     
  4. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I would give him a better than fair chance aginst anybody who came after him as champion.
     
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    My list of elite heavyweights from this era are:

    Sullivan
    Jackson
    Corbett
    Fitz
    Jeffries
    Johnson
    Langford
    Willard
    Wills
    Dempsey
    Tunney

    Shoutouts to:

    Godfrey
    Maher
    Hart
    Burns
    Mcvey
    Jeanette

    I think in h2h order I rank them as follows:

    Johnson (17-0-0)
    Langford (16-1-0)
    Dempsey (15-2-0)
    Jeffries (13-3-1)
    Sullivan (13-3-1)
    Wills (10-5-1)
    Jackson (10-5-1)
    Fitz (8-7-2)
    Corbett (8-7-2)
    Tunney (8-7-2)
    Willard (7-10)

    My only controversial pick imo is langford over jack. I just can't shake the image of jack rushing in like a wild bull and being knocked out by a counter punch.
     
  7. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jeff would have scared the **** out of Jack. That's just the problem. So did Willard. Sharkey unnerved Dempsey with a then novel pre-fight stare down.

    The last fighter I'd even contemplate attempting to intimidate would be the Mauler. Like trapping a wounded, frightened, rabid wolverine in a corner. (This is part of the reason I think he'd kill big slow Foreman, and get the better of Louis. Nobody was deadlier at using their own fear as a lethal weapon of survival, and both would terrify the hell out of Jack.)
     
  8. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    That surprises me about as much as the sun rising in the east.
     
  9. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  10. 1899sharkey

    1899sharkey Boxings golden age Full Member

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    You hit the nail right on the head!!!
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Corbett last is a big big shout - let's hear about that.

    I enjoyed this post but I don't agree. When it comes to the top 0.00001% I think the idea that additional motivation is the difference between winning and losing is to much. The idea that Dempsey had an additional tiny sliver of brilliance that he only "accessed" when he was scared and ubber-motivated is pretty, but it works all ways, first of all. Louis isn't more dangerous against Schmeling II than he was for Johnny Paycheck? But it's more than that. These guys are already incredibly, incredibly, incredibly motivated, wired, flushed with adrenaline, perfect fighting machines, the ultimate specimens of a global, most concentrated sport in history (with a history).

    I can't entertain the notion that Dempsey would win if he was scared and lose if he wasn't that scared for a second. The margins involved are far to tiny.
     
  12. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As pointed out, most of it is guesswork, I´ve never seen Sullivan or Jackson fight, Wills only past prime and so on. Comparing them is very hard if not impossible. I think Corbett would would lose the most in there. Let´s take a look:

    Johnson - I think Corbett has a good chance here, he has the mobility, speed and intelligence to pull it of. On the othe hand Johnson wasn´t a slow plodder who ran after you, he could set traps and while not a huge puncher he could pack a punch. He could do something similar to what Fitz did, probably not knocking him out with one punch but hurting Jim and finishing him of. I think that´s a 50/50 one.
    Jeffies - well Jeff beat him twice and while Corbett was past it I think the outcome would be always the same, perhaps Corbett would last longer but Jeff would break him down everytime in the end.
    Dempsey - he has the speed, power and mobility to catch him. And I think he would. Yes, he lost to Tunney who was stylistically similar to Corbett but then he took Gene down for 12 seconds, didn´t he? When he had lost most of his speed and mobility.
    Langford - would do what Fitz did, there would be more action because Langfod would be able to pessure more since he was faster on his feet than Fitz. The fight would be probably shorter too. On the othe hand I can see Corbett staying away and win a 20 rounder. Still, I don´t see him seeing the distance against Langford.
    Fitzsimmons - we saw that one.
    Tunney - is very similar to Corbett, size-wise too but I think he got the little extra more. He looks more refined to me and has that extra experience against a master-boxer - albeit a young one - in Louran. IMO this would make the difference. Close to 50/50 though.
    Jackson - this one ended in a draw while Jackson wasn´t at his best. Gives you a hint who would win at when the Black Prince is at his best.
    Sullivan - Corbett beat him easily. When Sullivan was old, shot, fat and a one handed fighter. I don´t think that tells us anything. Most contemporaries thought Sullivan would have beaten him at his best. He was fast, mobile and had a big punch and could fight on for foever then. I think he would get to him like Jeff did.
    Wills - I think Corbett has a decent chance to beat Wills, Wills seems to have been a bit slow on his feet and mobility and foot speed were Corbett´s strength. I can see Corbett staying away from Wills and either winning a decision or tiring him and stopping him in a fight to the finish. Unfortunatly, I think Wills would beat for example Fitz and Tunney. That´s why I think he deserves to be ranked above Corbett.

    In the end I think Corbett wins one and is at best 50/50 against two others. Perhaps I underate him, very possible since I´m not the most educated on those guys, so if I made mistakes there and am way of correct me. :thumbsup
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't have to much problem with a lot of what you have written there (although I think Wills got about alrite in his prime, as far as his peers go anyway), it's just that Corbett is likely to be the best pure boxer pre-Tunney and that's likely to be a difficult style for almost everyone on the list. I suppose he could end up being the turd in this kind of company but i'd have more confidence in listing the top three than the bottom three. So fair play for the long list.
     
  14. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    Corbett looks smoother/more fluid on the outside to me than Johnson does by a good bit, especially in overall footwork and putting punches together at that distance. I'd expect Johnson to try and do what he always does there- tying his man up and unleashing uppercuts.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    During his absolute prime, Johnson was more feared as an outboxer than an infighter, as incredible as that seems.