Dempsey's greatness.

"buttress your agenda"

What agenda?

The first criterium I use for all time rankings is did he fight and defeat the best out there?

Dempsey didn't, that's all.

 

EM, if you don't want to address my post to you , what is the use.? An agenda is not addressing what I asked you in my post a few hours ago as it is apparent you have no valid reply. And I can understand why you refrain. good day.

 

Its often forgotting Dempsey did sign up for WW2. He pretty much help train the troops,and did per take in a battle if I read in the past.

 

New York, April 24, 1922
AP
"The possibility of Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills, negro heavyweight contender, meeting in a championship contest in London this summer loomed today on the strength of a cablegram from George McDonald, English Promoter.

According to Dia Dollings, English fight manager, now in New York, he received the following message last night from McDonald:
"Can you get Wills to come to London to box Dempsey?"

Wills, when informed of the cablegram, announced he "would be ready to depart on the first boat"...

Dempsey, so far as is known here, has not signed articles for any match in connection with his present tour of Europe, although he has announced his willingness to meet Carpentier in a return engagement or any other European contenders."

So, basically, Dempsey was offered the opportunity to fight Wills in Europe and was more interested in re-flattening the heavyweight fraud of The Orchid Man.

Brave soul that man was.

 

Okay

1--"Dempsey didn't fight Wills"

That was my point.

2--"Tunney"

Did Dempsey defeat Tunney?

3--"Greb"

My point is if you look at whom Dempsey did defeat

Fulton, Firpo, Gunboat Smith, Homer Smith, Willie Meehan--Lost to Wills

Levinsky, Miske, Brennan, Gibbons, Meehan--Lost to Greb

Levinsky, Carpentier, Gibbons--Lost to Tunney

Now there might be perfectly good reasons why Dempsey didn't fight or couldn't defeat Wills, Greb, and Tunney,

but I can't rate Dempsey over champions who don't have a situation in which the men they did defeat were not as good as the men they didn't defeat.

 

The counterargument would be that Jack Sharkey defeated Wills, and a minority papers gave Levinsky the nod over Greb around the time that Dempsey steamrolled him.

 

"Jack Sharkey defeated Wills"

Yes, at 37.

But if you are going to make a big deal about this, someone might ask why we should supposedly dismiss the Tunney fights when Dempsey was 31 & 32 but count it against Wills that he lost at 37.

A few papers thought Levinsky edged Greb in a fight.

And some papers thought Miske edged Dempsey in ten in 1918.

 

Well, it's a start.

Basically you've got an AP report from NY of an English promoter called McDonald telegraming a New York-based English fight manager called Dollings ... asking about Harry Wills .... and this happening while Dempsey was somewhere in Europe.

How does this equate to Dempsey being "offered the opportunity to fight Wills in Europe" ??

This guy McDonald is trying to get hold of Wills in New York. There's nothing in this particular report that suggests Dempsey was being contacted or offered anything.

But it's a start, and I you can do much better. :good

 

There's nothing in this particular report that suggests Dempsey was being contacted or offered anything.

UNLESS, of course, we surmise that McDonald had spoken to Dempsey before asking Wills to come to London ... in which case, we' have to investigate whether Wills did indeed depart on the next boat ? If not, why not ?
I mean, Dempsey's somewhere in Europe. Wills is in NY. The alleged promoter of this fight is in London.

It's very possible that this is just a non-story, Mr. Dia Dollings getting his name in the newpaper.

Let's see some better real offers, let's see the actual amounts Dempsey turned down from serious promoters. I'm sure there are some.

 

Give me time... I don't have much these days.

I do believe money is the ultimate water of human existence. It flows with unyielding power to the place of least resistance. Where this does not occur, something of man's artifice is afoot.

 

Dempsey was going on his European tour. He was more interested in a rematch with the pathetic Carpentier than he was in a potential match with Wills. You do the math.

 

You must not have Jack Johnson ranked very high then either.

 

This seems to be just news talk Dempsey undoubtedly should have fought Wills. Where the blame for it not happening should be apportioned is very hard to direct with any certainty.
I always find it hilarious when a boxers courage is questioned from the safety of a key board.
Dempsey was fightng full grown men for a plate of beans when he was 16 years old. I would be impressed if those making these remarks had done so in the presence of the victim of them ,otherwise they are rather distasteful imo.
I'm certainly no ,Fleischer but I'm English and have followed boxing for over 50 years,I've never heard of George McDonald what fights of any significance did he promote?

 

He comes up a bit as he promoted at the Olympia in London. Jimmy Wilde, Billy Wells, Mike O'Dowd, Benny Leonard all come up as names he promoted at one time. It looks like he tried to move some of his action stateside when he brought Wells over. He also offered 150000 pounds to Rickard to co-promote the Dempsey Carpentier fight at the Olympia.