Dempsey's greatness.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by VG_Addict, Aug 16, 2013.


  1. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    IF, Dempsey hadn't been out of the ring for 2 years before fighting Gibbons.
    IF, Tommy Gibbons had chosen to trade with Dempsey.
    IF, IF, IF...The fact of the matter is that Dempsey not in the best form won a unanimous decision over a man who was never kod in over 100 bouts...
    Good try but no cigar S...
     
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    that clever Jack Dempsey had an excuse for everything, didn't he? Not fighting a war, getting cold****ed in the 1st round, not meeting the best fighter in the division for 7 years, not meeting the man who had defeated 4 of his title challengers multiple times, sitting on his ass for years at a time with the belt in mothballs... Nothing contrived about his reign as champion, no sir.
     
  3. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Quotes anyone?

    Arcel. “He should’ve been the only heavyweight anybody ever thought of when they thought about the greatest heavyweight champion. I mean he had everything. He could punch, he could box. He was ferocious and determined. I trained Max Baer and people would always ask me how Max right hand compared to Dempseys. Are you kidding me...It wasn't close."

    Jersey Jones. “At his peak Jack Dempsey was the most dynamic and devastating heavyweight this commentator has ever seen…Manassa Jack had speed, strength, better than average boxing skills, lusty punching power and a blazing spirit. His bobbing and weaving style made him a difficult target to hit solidly, but when he was, he had the “ruggedness” to take it. Lithe as a panther and just as savage, Dempsey packed one of the most powerful punching combinations in the game…”

    Sam Langford, when asked how Harry Wills (whom he fought 18 times in his career) would do against Jack Dempsey, said in the June 5, 1922, Atlanta Constitution "Well if he ever fights Dempsey my money will be on the present champion. Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen. He hits twice as hard as Jim Jeffries and is as fast in the ring as James J. Corbett."

    Tunney. Jack could recover faster than any man I ever fought. He was dangerous with a five-second interval. During both bouts with Jack I could never rest..at any moment with any single punch the fight could have been over."

    Odd. "Jack had the upper body strength of the old school fighters but could move on his feet like the new. Tipping the scales at 190 pounds, his upper torso was equivalent to that of a 210-pound man. He was lean and mean with the skill and the will. He was the fastest hardest puncher I ever witnessed in the heavyweight division"

    In 1950, the Associated Press conducted a poll of sportswriters to name the greatest fighter of all-time, pound-for-pound, and Dempsey was the runaway winner, collecting 251 votes. [Joe Louis finished a distant second with 109 votes; Henry Armstrong was third with 13.] The sportswriters of the first half of the century named Dempsey as the greatest fighter they had ever seen.

    As late as 1962, in the Dec 1962 Ring Magazine, a panel of 40 boxing writers tabbed Dempsey as the greatest heavyweight of all time.

    Bert Sugar rated Jack Dempsey as the # 1 all time pound for pound heavyweight. Nat Fleischer rated him #4 on his all time heavyweight list. He also considered Dempsey the best infighter and best two handed hitter among all heavyweight champions. Charley Rose rated him # 3. Eric Jorgensen rates him #2. Monte Cox rates him # 6.
     
  4. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Most previous champions took the title on the road and so did Dempsey...nothing new. Dempsey was just as active as champion as any previous champion except Burns and more active than any other champion up to Joe Louis.
     
  5. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm sure Jack Johnson had his reasoning on the ko's he suffered before becoming champ also, and for avoiding the best fighter in the division (Langford) for years,,,a contrived championship also? No, its the game and often the way it turns out. Don't like the guy, you have a right not too.
     
  6. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Stupid comparison ... Johnson fought and thrashed Langford once ... Dempsey never fought Wills .. Johnson was also prosecuted because of his race and had to leave his own country post Jeffries ands live as an exile and be denied every possible advantage as champion while Dempsey lavished in his advantages ... other than that pretty accurate ...
     
  7. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ranking of Dempsey all time through the years.

    Fleischer. 4th
    Rose. 3rd
    World Boxing. 2nd
    Nat Loubet. 2nd
    John Durant. 3rd
    Bill Brennen. 3rd
    Big book of boxing. 4th
    Odd. 5th
    Sugar. 1st
    Harris. 3rd
    Collins. 9th
    Goldman. 6th
    BBC sports. 4th
    Farhood. 5th
    IBRO. 4th
    ESPN. 3rd
    Sports illustrated. 6th
    Eric Jorgensen. 2nd
    Monte Cox. 6th

    That's rankings from the late 50s to the present. Not many boxing champions are ranked consistently this high nearly 100 years after they won the championship.
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I guess when someone regurgitates the same quotes a couple dozen times on the same thread he thinks he is proving a point anew.

    Look, I still have Dempsey top 15 all time at heavyweight. It's not like I think he is chopped ham. He was a great fighter...

    Just not as good as his publicity machine makes him out to be. He no longer has any business in the top 5, and I would further argue the top 10. Short prime, inactive championship reign, failure to fight top opponents... these are some damning issues that prevent such lofty estimations. But still, 14 or 15 is pretty high ****ing praise. Anyone complaining about that just proves their adolescent hero worship has gotten the better of their reason.
     
  9. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Totally blowing you away that is for sure. Ignore the facts and post distortions is the game you play. Sad and unfortunate for you I'm afraid.
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Yes, you are blowing me away. Probably not in the way you imagine or intend.

    You have offered nothing to counter the fact that Dempsey Inc. avoided Wills and Greb and have not accounted for this great lapse in his career. You have not countered the contemporary articles I have cited regarding some scribes who were more than critical of Dempsey's title reign. Rather, you have regurgitated popularity polls and quotes and the opinions of total hams like Sugar, the stuff not of historians but of those who follow pop idols. Yes, Dempsey the icon, the pop idol, creation and fiction does stand as the greatest of that ilk until Ali. Dempsey, the fighter, also great, but somewhere beneath that estimation.
     
  11. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oh sure Jack Johnson was a model citizen...A great fighter yes. A model citizen ? No sir...
     
  12. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hey Seamus, calling me and other sober minded posters "adolescent hero worshipers " because we agree with the vast majority of boxing experts
    who called Dempsey one of the greatest heavyweights ever, makes me
    somehow less mature than you, shows me your true colors...I hope when you get my age you will have near the mental capacity I still enjoy...
    Joe Louis did not fight many black heavyweights much greater than some of the white heavyweights, were HE SO INCLINED....But nary a peep from you sir...Not a darn peep from you...I will say this one more time sir...What I have seen in boxing, what I have read of boxing history, gives me as much right to air my opinions without being called an adolescent hero worshiper, from the likes of you...I am proud of defending a great fighter
    and gentleman from the likes of revisionists like you....It is you who have an agenda, not I...cheerio...
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Can't say whether he should have lost or not.
    He committed a few fouls, but so did plenty of other champions.
    He was allegedly illegally pushed back into the ring, but apart from that not being his fault it's impossible to say whether he would have got back without that.

    Dempsey fought a wild fight. He could have fought a more disciplined fight. But it made for an exciting spectacle.
    Not sure what the problem is.
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He also said Dempsey was a much better boxer than the press gave him credit for.
     
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Actually, 2 years inactivity is a valid excuse for a dull performance.
    Besides, what's Gibbons' excuse for losing to him ? :lol: