Dempsey's greatness.

EM, Could Tommy Ryan have beaten Joe Louis ? My honest opinion ?
HELL NO...Would the greatest fighter I ever saw Ray Robinson have a chance against Ketchel at 160 pounds ? You bet your life !
Every one of us uses hyperbole at times...Would Joe Blow beat King Tut ?
Some would answer "he would have killed him "...Sometimes our emotions trumps our language....
As for Jack Kearns saying that "Maxim took a better punch than Dempsey"
And he said Maxim was a better fighter than Dempsey ...I remember those vindictive remarks Kearns was quoted as saying in the 1940s when Kearns
managed Joey Maxim....Kearns was a huckster pure and simple who hated Dempsey since Dempsey fired Kearns and accused Kearns of stealing Dempsey's purses... As for Joey Maxim he was a great standup boxer with a solid chin, but hit no HARDER than some middleweights of his time, and that is why Ray Robinson chose Maxim to fight instead of a Moore, Charles, Harold Johnson, Lloyd Marshall. Ray always knew what was best for him...

 

Tommy Ryan had an amazing record.

 

No doubt ! But beating a 200 pound trip hammer puncher Joe Louis is a bridge too far...

 

No middleweight could beat Joe Louis.

Although some might still say Greb, Langford and Fitz.

 

Of all the great middleweight fighters, the one that had the "best" chance to beat Joe Louis was Harry Greb...Why ? Because you can't beat what you can't hit....No fighter ever combined such great handspeed, elusive footwork, stamina, an iron chin, and a tough love for combat...Put these qualities together and you have the "Iron City Express "...
His likes, we will never see again...

 

Not to nitpick Burt but the fact that Maxim was thee Light Heavyweight Champion of the World is the biggest reason Robinson chose to fight him. He wanted the Light Heavy Crown. I agree it was a good matchup for Robinson.

Also later on down the road Robinson attempted to make a fight with Archie Moore that wouldve drew good $ at the time. Archie Moore was the Champion then. According to Ray Archie decided to fight Durelle instead.

 

If Ray Robinson TRULY wanted to fight Archie Moore he COULD have and Would have... Were he of mind...If a neighbor of mine Artie Levine a MW had Ray Robinson on the floor for 17 seconds in 1946, an Archie Moore would have kod the lighter SRR...

 

Can someone post where Nat stated ryan would beat louis. He does not mention this in 50 years at ringside.

 

I think someone said Jack Johnson stated that, not Nat.

 

Then so what? Thats one quote if true. Johnson more than makes up for that by stripping down and demonstrating exactly how Schmeling was going to beat Louis. Ryan did have an amazing record only losing a few times and scoring something like 90 kos in over 100 bouts.

 

Jack Johnson seemed to pick a lot of guys to beat Joe Louis though, not just Max Schmeling.

 

Not Nat.

Jack Johnson picked Tommy Ryan to beat Louis.

Johnson in the July, 1946 issue of The Ring

"history proves that the men of my fighting era were giants in comparison to the best of today's fighters. There is only one man who stands out today, Joe Louis, and in my humble opinion, not only could I have whipped Joe when I was at my best, but I'll name Sam Langford, Jeffries, Corbett, Choynski, Tom Sharkey, Fitz and Tommy Ryan amoung some of the old timers who would have taken Joe into camp and Jack Dempsey among those who followed me."

*Frankly, I see Tom Sharkey as a very unlikely favorite over Louis, but that's just me.

 

Yeah, it's the old psychic prediction trick. I remember a lady (I forget the name) who became famous by allegedly predicting JFK would die in office. Turns out she made this prediction about every president, so if one did die she becomes a "see the future" psychic. Few bothered to go back and look up all her wrong predictions.

 

I think it clear Robinson fought Maxim in 1952 because he was champion.

It is an open question if he would have gone after the light heavy title if, let's say, Archie Moore had been champion.

 

Tubbs was no bum. He had the talent to become a great fighter but lacked the dedication and trainer necessary. He had skill, ring intelligence and remarkable speed for a man of his size. He had great potential that he never fully realized.