Can anyone put a number on Dempsey's pre-challenger fights? I was just watching a documentary with Mike Tyson analysing past champs, and he talks about Dempsey's numbers like they're a total myster. Does anyone know different?
Dempsey claimed that he had more than a hundred unrecorded fights. Given the record keeping of the period this is quite plausible.
Greg, it's ratty old video called "Tyson: The Heavyweights". Mike and BBC correspondant Harry Carpenter sitting in a BBC editing suite running BBC film of some of the old champs. It is absolutley fascinating. Mike is curtious, respectful, insightful, a pleasure really, Carpenter was fond of him for years of the back of these interviews. Tyson loved Dempsey, that much was very clear. "I love Jack Dempsey", he said this more than once. He was also well into Joe Louis, and described Conn-Louis I as his favourite fight. "If i'm depressed or something, I just hit the button on that fight, it just makes my day". I'd guess his top 3 would be Ali, Louis, Dempsey, though I wouldn't like to speculate as to the order. There is some fantastic footage throughout of the great heavyweights and some lovely footage of Tyson himself. Don't know if you'll still be able to get it but it's worth trying to track down.
i have that tape!!! Tyson comes across as a sensetive, intelligent analyst......with quite a witty sense of humor. like when they talk about how to fight rocky marciano. i think it was carpenter who suggested that you just have to press rocky, back him up .....like don cockel did. and i remember tyson saying with a laugh that it would be very hard to convince the opponent to due just that.
It's brilliant isn't it? It was Tyson recounting a story Cus told him about how to beat Marciano that started that conversation. Tyson was really gutting himself. That was probably the golden moment from that video right enough. Also good is Harry's story about Willard keeping that big bolt that he claimed Dempsey hit him with. Must have been amazing to have seen that first hand. Harry Carpenter continued to stick up for Tyson even after the Danny Williams loss. They made a fine impression on each other I think.
yeah, its fun to watch. carpenter and tyson made a good team. that willard story about the iron bolt was scary. but i doubt the truth about it. cause dempsey was hitting him from down home.......full force all the way. and he hit him often. and if you consider the punching power dempsey displayed in later fights, willard injuries are plausible.
I have a copy to,they did about three i think,the other one i can remember was about great knockouts,but the heavyweight one was great,though does not tyson say jack johnson was not very good????
Basiclly he says that Jack wouldn't "make a penny" in the modern market (because he's boring) which I think is wide of the mark - someone with that talent and that gift for self promotion would be right up there. He raises the point about Johnson "not being elusive with his body" and points out that that would be a worry for Johnson in the modern era. This is not accurate - but very interestingly I think Tyson may, consiously or unconsciously be answering the question, "could you beat Johnson", in which case he's hit upon the pertinant point. My own opinion is that if Johnson got the look at Tyson's style that Tyson has had at his he would make it a very competitive fight. You're right though, Johnson is the only champ Tyson is a little disrespectful of.
The fact that Johnson was the first coloured champion is as much due to his skill for self promotion as his talent. That is perhaps the one thing he had over Peter Jackson, Sam Langford et al.
The 'Kid Blackie' book goes into some detail regarding Dempseys hobo days, its a great read if you can track it down
I had an old book written by Dempsey, I lent it to someone and never got it back about 30 somewhat years ago but the book gave me a good glimpse into the life of Dempsey and how he was born for fighting, how he used to hang from the undercarrige of the railcars to avoid being hit by the conductors with poles. His arms became like steel cables, he also used to soak his hands and face with brine when he was 8 years old. He wanted to be Champion but his coal miner fights were unreal, he would go from town to town and barenuckle fight. Hardtimes
I felt Dempsey zippng up my all time Heavyweight top 20 as I read your post. I think i will go and have a lie down until the feeling passes.
In the 1930s Dempsey estimated his actual career record for boxing matches - proper matches with a ring and gloves - as approximating 120 wins, a dozen losses, and 20 draws.
Never saw it, what did Tyson say about Marciano, Tunney, Corbett, Sullivan, Jeffires, Ali, Fraizer, Holmes ete.himself when compare to the other fighters,