Dempsey's Power

Maybe, but Dempsey from my understanding seemed honest. And in reality, the film does prove his claim to be true.

Man I do feel you have something against The Rock especially when I see you find a way to diss him against another small fighter. What does Walcott's age have to do with his durability or ability to take a punch in this case? He was in arguably the best shape of his life and fighting the best fight of his life up until round 13. Marciano hit Walcott all over but never hit him with the perfect shot or in the perfect placement. Using the "How did he survive through 13 rounds" can be used for virtually any power punch. Marciano got him full extension right on the button in the perfect spot. Lights out for Walcott.

Great A mentions the somewhat subtle style difference. I'm making the thread about Marciano and Charles to that would somewhat justify that. Charles took a treacherous beating, no doubt (I'll leave it at that for now). The second fight took a few big punches to drop him, then 5-6 bombs to finish him. Charles was quite beat up (Although up on the cards?) but I wouldn't say it was an accumulation win seeing as he needed "1 round" to win. Marciano was said to keep LaStarza up to punish him for the "Brain-damage" comment. Peter Marciano says that it was probably the only time he came in the ring with hostility. Nicky Sylvester, Rocky's friend said that he "Kept up in the 5th round, 7th round, 8th round, 10th round, etc." And for power, Marciano ruined LaStarza's career, broke blood vessels in his arm which required surgery. Marciano dropped Moore constantly with Moore being saved by the bell on two occasions. The Moore knockdowns looks like a lot of the Dempsey fights with Dempsey's opponent getting up. The Cockell fight was Rocky's worst performance. Cockell was game to survive, throw a straight, hold, back up, 1-2, back up, hold, etc.

I disagree. Here is my breakdown. Marciano to me is clearly the more powerful puncher. In terms of one punch power and power in general. Dempsey is quick and more accurate a puncher. He gets to the right spots and has good speed so the fighters don't see it coming as much. Dempsey can be incredibly lethal because of those. In terms of punchers, Dempsey is a better puncher. Both technically, and when combining speed and power. With Rocky, he is clearly the more powerful puncher. In my book anyway.

As for the Dempsey - Sharkey fight. Isn't the reading of it a cheap low blow that had Sharkey turned and hurt with Dempsey flooring him with a left hook. It was a rather cheapish win that doesn't display his power in comparison to the Marciano and Walcott fight.

1 Punch and Layne was in fetal position.

1 Punch and Walcott had a scrambled brain.

Carmine Vingo in a near death fight.

Harry Kid Mathews fight with a feint right and two left hooks.

Marciano and Walcott rematch.

Dropping Louis with a left hook. Finishing him but knocking him through the ropes.

Bingo.

A misconception is that people survived with Marciano therefore his power is overstated. Not true. People don't factor important things like accuracy, speed, etc. Marciano's power was crushing but Marciano could become wild and would punch anywhere and everywhere. When he hit you on the button it was likely good night.

 

They say the hardest punch is the one you don't see coming.

Dempsey just wasn't elusive enough. A fighter could brace them selves for his punches before they landed.

 

You have a good point there. Tyson's final knockout left hook punch to Berbick didn't look hard when you watch it but it had Berbick falling all over the ring.

 

I think Dempsey was definitely a power puncher. It seems to me his attacks were prone to damaging his opponents in the head area more than the body. It seems in my opinion that Joe was a body puncher first and then a head puncher second. Joe couldn't always get many clean punches to his opponents face but he always was able to land ferocious body shots throughout a fight and break his opponents down if he could not knock them down quickly.

It seems at though Dempsey style opened up his opponents for more head shots which have immediate effects in regard to opponents being hurt or knockdowns. Whereas Frazier's body punches did not have immediate results but definitely took their toll in the later rounds.

 

:nut I am speechless. I have no speech. It's late. I'm old. I should be in bed.

 

Indications of Marcianos power ,Walcott stated he was a harder one shot puncher than Louis.Also Most of Marciano's adversary's weren't the same after tangling with him ,he ruined quite a few fighters.

 

Why is it every time I voice an opinion based on fact do Rocky lovers claim I have something against the man ? That is their best defense against logic, obviously.

Age has a lot to do with an ability to absorb punishment. This is a fact. Now here you go claiming the 38 year old Walcott was in the best shape of his life for the Marciano bout. Better than at 34, twice against Joe Louis ? Better than at 35 and 36 v.s. Charles for the title ? Where do you pick this fact out of the air ? Walcott was not at his physical prime at 38 for Marciano, let's be real please. Say what you want but watch the film ... Marciano tagged him many times all fight and Walcott hung tough and fought him tooth and nail. No doubt Rocky caught him with a late fight bomb but it was not as if he did not hit him all night. He simply caught him perfect.

There is no point debating his title bouts as the results speak for themselves despite your disagreeing. It took him many rounds to pound out small heavyweights. Not a few punches. None of them even 200 pounders. It does not diss Rocky to say this, in fact it praises him. It shows he was an extremely well conditioned puncher, perhaps the best ever, who loaded up round after round, punch after punch and broke his men down. What's wrong with accepting this fact? I'm giving him more credit than you Prince since you are saying he lacked skill and only KO'ed when he finally managed to connect. Again, a myth since the films show different. He landed hard and often and KO'ed most, like most big punchers, with an accumulation, a great achievement.

I personally find Dempsey to be a far more explosive and skilled puncher. He destroyed much bigger men, without question. I feel certain if more film existed on Jack the question would not really be a debate.

 

Well, yeah, but Dempsey went 15 with the 175 lb Gibbons and 12 with the rather ordinary Brennan. I would point out that Dempsey had only one knockout---Sharkey---after the age of 28, and that was a bizarre fight. He had only 2 ko's in 5 fights after the age of 26. And are you all that certain that films of Dempsey coming up would show him off better than Marciano against Muscato, Shkor, Beshore, Reynolds, Vingo, etc, all of which seem to have been destructive knockouts.

I think Dempsey scored something like 50 ko's in 83 fights. Marciano 43 in 49.

 

As said before, Charles, Walcott, and Moore are a higher breed of fighters than Willard, Firpo, and even George imo.

People bring up the age, "Old" Walcott, Charles and Moore, but forget that "Old" Tommy Gibbions took prime Jack Dempsey the whole 15 rounds, and he was lighter than these guys on fight night.

Not to mention Dempsey's problems in catching Brennan after hell in 11 rounds.

Lets say I think Marciano would blast out Firpo in pretty much the same way as Dempsey did. Dempsey was not faceing the movers Marciano did. Outside of Gibbions.

Would not relly count the Sharkey ko in regards to power, it was a shot to the balls follow by a hook to the chin.

Hardly note worthy in power imo.

 

Brennan was stopped in 6 rounds by Dempsey first time around. He'd never been stopped before in 50 fights.
When they met the second time, Brennan had only been stopped by Dempsey, one stoppage in 80 fights !
In fact, Brennan went 100 fights with only Dempsey being able to stop him. Then, by now a barkeeper and past his best, he got stopped twice (by Firpo and Miske) and retired.

 

But was the first fight stop more on Brennan hurting his foot than it did with Dempsey's knock out power?

 

Walcott didn't move much against Marciano, not up on his toes. Charles's legs weren't was they used to be either and fought mostly flat-footed. Archie Moore was rather flat-footed too.

Gibbons and Carpentier were on their bicycles at times versus Dempsey, for sure.

 

Brennan hurt his foot when Dempsey hit him on the chin. That should answer your question.


As I said earlier, the original post in this thread is a criticism that can be applied to most, perhaps ALL, of the all-time punchers. Pure one-punch KOs are rare, esp. at world-class level.

 

Gibbions was holding, not relly moving, and Carpentier would go back a few feet from Dempsey and try to land that right of his, He was not moving or ducking or slipping like Walcott did.

Marciano had Walcott corner on the ropes, and just with a few shoulder shifts, made Marciano miss most of his punchings, Think it was the 6th or 7th round??
Moore did the same thing. Not relly foot movement, but the ablilty to not get tag, which Capentier or Firpo lack.