Dempsey's pre-title run, quality of opposition

U, When Dempsey hooked up with Jack Kearns, Dempsey "found himself".
Jack was maturing, and kod most of these contenders of that time,culminating with the slaughter of Jess Willard in Toledo, 1919.
They were in no order- Carl Morris, Bill Brennan, Billy Miske, Arthur Pelkey,Gunboat Smith, Porky Flynn, Battling Levinsky, and probably the
best of the lot ,6ft.6" Fred Fulton,who Dempsey absolutely creamed in one rd, 1918.Then of course Jess Willard in 1919. The Manassa Mauler was at his peak about this time. Jack was 24years old only but was fighting more than 10 years,starting in mining camps, and saloons of the old west. It was this Dempsey of this period,who made his reputation as the great
"man-killer".After he became champion, he started his decline, living a hedonistic life,La Dolce Vita. Hollywood beckoned, women fell at his feet,
got married to a hollywood starlet, alienated Jack Kearns, his mentor and manager, and after 3 years inactive, Dempsey ,without some warmup fights
tackled the prime great Gene Tunney.And we know the results now.Jack
was no longer the amazingly,super fast Jungle Cat of old, but an imitation
of his former greatness, that we today,see only in the one out of sync,
hand cranked camera,koing large Jess willard, 1919...Even old and out of shape,with refexes long gone Dempsey only lost to a razor sharp Gene Tunney in Philly,1926,and again in 1927, the infamous"Long Count" where Gene was down for 15-17 seconds...something not right in that fight,and
not fair, because in the 10th round Tunney dropped Jack,and the referee
Started the count pronto even though Tunney was over Jack and nowhere's
near a neutral corner. Why did the ref wait for Dempsey to go to a neutral corner,before starting the count when Tunney was down,maybe 10 seconds after Gene hit the canvass, but started his count over Jack immediately
when Tunney was close to the floored Dempsey? Hmmm.! b.b.

 

Fred Fulton was seen as a top contender and allegedly avoided by Jess Willard.

Billy Miske was another contender but Dempsey was unable to really get the better of him.

Carl Morris was a decent big man, most notable for nearly ruining Fulton's reputation.

The destruction of a young Bill Brennan was seen as impressive.

Gunboat Smith was shot.

 

ironically, by a gunboat

 

P, I take care of the jokes..atsch

 

it was a good un' though

 

Yes,U,I'm sure some of these victims were not at their peaks, through no fault of Jack Dempsey.No fighter magically decides at what time in history
Momma gives birth to them. For all of us it's the luck of the draw. Same with Dempsey. The fact remains, from all my years of reading about the
history of boxing,and as a youth,amongst old guys who saw Dempsey as Champion, he was in his unseen prime today,a force of nature. No one before, or after, combined the speed and destructive power of the young
Dempsey, except for Joe Louis, and young Mike Tyson, I believe...
What Dempsey had in spades, was an innate 'kill or be killed 'attitude,
never surpassed by a heavyweight, in my opinion...Cheers U...

 

I dont think much of Morris, myself.

 

He was certainly the least talented big man of the era. He also put up almost no effort whatsoever against Dempsey.

 

In May 1916 Dempsey also KO'd George Christian in the 1st round - George Christian was a afro-american/black fighter who although not a contender as such had lasted 8 rounds with Joe Jeanette previously and would last the 6-round route with Jeanette in his very next fight - he had also previously KO'd Arthur Pelkey in 1 round. He also had interestingly fought a 6-round draw and a 10-round draw with pesky Willie Meehan previously also - in 1918 Christian would suffer back-to-back 3 round KO's to Kid Norfolk and Jack Thompson and then fizzle out.

(Agile?) Andre Anderson is also another interesting fight - though not in anyway a contender - He was biggish - 6'5" and around the time he fought Dempsey (June 1916) usually averaged 215-220 (and would later fight in the 240's) and he could obviously hit a little as he had Dempsey down 3 times in the second round before Dempsey outslugged him over the 10 round route. Anderson's previous fight had been a 12 round draw with Bill Brennan. He had also won a 10 rounder over Wille Meehan, and would go the tem round route with Joe Jeanette the following year. He would though later be stopped in a couple of rounds by Sam Langford in a generally losing record.

Wild Bert Kenny who Dempsey also fought in 1916 may have been a losing campaigner amongst generally light heavyweights but he also could obviously hit - flooring Demps twice in the 5th round of another ten rounder - a lop-sided losing record he had but he generally was a very difficult man to stop - having gone the route with Jack 'Twin' Sullivan, Battling Levinsky (x3), Willie Meehan, Bartley Madden (x2) and would also go the distance with Tommy Gibbons, Kid Norfolk (x3), Billy Miske, Jeff Clark (the joplin ghost) and Frank Moran amongst others.

There was also John Lester Johnson - another afro-amercan/black fighter (of broken ribs beating fame) - he'd been 10 rounds with Bill Tate and Joe Jeanette twice each and had also been the 20 rounds with Harry Wills and in his fight previous to Dempsey had also taken Harry Wills 10 rounds. Johnson would also take Kid Norfolk the distance on 3 occassions.

And there was also Jim Flynn too

so there were a lot of tough cookies around - very very hard and brutal fights for someone on the way up - many who may have had losing records but guys who were very very tough customers who could hurt and put you down and who regularly slugged it out it with everyone and everyone week in week out.

 

Rocky, thanks for your input...

 

Jeez, careful McGrain, you might actually be mistaken for crediting him with something! atsch Do you realise, that when he fought the 6'5" 215lb Andre Anderson for instance Dempsey was only weighing in the region of 170??!! Cut the guy some slack these type of fights would never be allowed to happen these days on safety grounds - for Dempsey's safety - he was a rough kid - and a middleweight still growing and homeless and hungry and he's being thrown in with rough tough battle scarred full blown heavyweights??!! Thats not "average stuff" as you put it - that's scraping by and having to go in there against guys who were mixing it regularly with name heavyweights and holding their own - and you're just an unknown travelling hobo kid who could barely get a meal each day?!!