Dempsey's punching ability compared to the 90s heavyweights

Not at all.
Jack Dempsey was an extraordinary fighter. He punched hard and punched well. He probably punched as hard as anyone in his era. What's the motivation to pretend that isn't so ?

 

I'm not claiming he's a harder puncher than X, Y or Z.
I'm claiming he'd hit like a mule kick in any era. He had ample punching ability.

Would anyone question whether a 218 pound Tyson, a 212 pound Liston, or a 210 pound Shavers would have good punching abilty in the age of Klitscko, Joshua and Fury (men in the 240 - 260 pound range) ??

 

You don't have success overcoming those sort of size disparities, without exceptional punching form.

 

He was definitely one of the hardest punchers in his era; that's a statement that can be made with a firm amount of confidence. Trouble was, judging by the footage and the stats we have of his opponents, it's only logical to deduce that punchers in Dempsey's day did not hit remotely as hard as fighters from the 80s/90s onwards. Therefore neither did Dempsey.

Look at the hardest punchers of the 90s. Were any of them remotely as tiny as Dempsey? The smallest would probably be Moorer and he was hardly in the same ballpark as Lewis, Tyson, Morrison, Tua etc.

I'd definitely question how powerful Liston or Shavers would be in the current age. Both men would be closer to cruiserweight and would likely be considered too small to compete at heavy on even terms. Dmitri Kudryashov is considered a monstrous puncher at cruiserweight (as well as a monstrous cruiser in terms of rehydrated size) but no one would seriously consider that he'd be the same sort of force in a division that includes fighters like Joshua and Wilder.

 

Why not?

You had guys as big as anybody from the 80s or 90s.

 

Slow, crude, unathletic guys, sure.

By the 90s you had guys the size of Willard and Firpo with the speed and athleticism of smaller fighters. That's the difference.

 

Moorer was a decent puncher. Morrison a bit overrated.

How would you explain how Dempsey could be among the hardest punchers of his own era, when ranked fighters like Wills, Willard, Fulton, Firpo, McVea, G.Godfrey, Monte Munn etc. outweighed him by 15 to 50 pounds ?

So if Shavers or Liston hits Joshua or Fury on the chin, what would you say happens ?

And what about Mike Tyson ? He's 215 to 221 in his prime. That sounds like your rehydrated cruiser to me. So is he powerful enough or not ?

 

Being slow and crude does not mean that you hit any less hard.

 

Define "athleticism".

 

To follow on to your statement: that's why SHW guys have an advantage over the smaller guys that could punch like Dempsey. The SHW can get considerable power into his punches without messing his stance up and getting off balance. Even if the smaller guy gets more force into his blows by going all out, he's got a problem with all that momentum after the blow is completed. It's not insurmountable (see Marciano) but a big shw like Vitali can generate enough force with even just arm punches to do damage ... WITHOUT losing stance, balance etc.

 

Because none of those guys had his combination of speed, technique and general nastiness. Firpo was slow as molasses and looked like a crude cavemen punching, and he was considered one of the punchers of his era. It's not hard to be a better puncher than your competitors when the only thing they really have on you is size.

If Liston or Shavers hit Joshua on the chin they would likely do some damage for sure, but not more than any other fighter in the division. If Marco Huck hit Joshua on the chin he could do damage as well, but he's not going to have the same effect as an Ortiz, Wlad or Wilder.

Tyson was a freak. He's an outlier in discussions like these.

General mind body coordination, innate sense of balance and movement, speed, explosiveness, lack of oafishness. It's easy enough to spot in the ring. Look at the difference between Nikolai Firtha and Joseph Parker for instance.