Dempsey's take on the non-fight with Wills

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I'm sure this quote has been posted before but I'm reading the Ring Mag and found it interesting.

    "Harry Wills was a good fighter," Dempsey said in a 1970 interview. "There was a color bar. They wouldn't let you fight no place. Rickard wanted to make the fight, but there was no place you could put it on. The result of it is the fight never came off. I wanted to fight him. I knew it would have made a lot of money for both of us."

    The article mentions a few attempted tries at making the fight:

    July 1922 a fight was signed but no promoter, date nor venue came forward within the 2 month time limit.

    A fight was then promoted to take place in Canada before the financial backers withdrew without explanation.

    In 1925 Dempsey gave a press conference calling wills out but local politicians rallied against it in fear of a repeat of the race riots 12 years ago.

    ...........

    The article paints a picture of the fight being a non starter in america and canada due to local politicians being set against it and promoters not willing to make a black man a title challenger.

    This is probably boring and rehashed for a lot of you resident classics but it's the most detail I've ever read about the saga and thought I'd post it.

    If there are any inaccuracies, bear in mind this is a ring magazine article and not my own opinions/findings.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Uh oh...

    My guess is that the fight could have been made in the United States if Dempsey had really wanted it. If it couldn't be fought in the US and he wanted to be know as the best of his era he should have made it in Cuba (Johnson-Willard), France (McVey-Jeanette), England (Burns-Moir) or Australia (Burns-Johnson)

    All of these bouts bar one are between north-Americans in huge HW fights fought outside the US and all bar one are for the title.

    If Dempsey doesn't care enough about proving himself the best of his era (which is is fine), then obviously this doesn't matter. But he can't be known as the best of his era for failing to fight his #1 contender for almost his entire stint as champ IMO.


    And you can bet this is the last post I am making in this thread!


    (maybe)
     
    McGrain, Apr 6, 2012
    McGrain, Apr 6, 2012
    #2
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Dempsey contends your viewpoint with

    "there was no place you could put it on."
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    #3
  4. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    Nobody ever fought with the idea of "proving" themselves the best of the era: the motivating factor was, is, and always will be money. There was no money to be made from a Dempsey/Wills fight so the fight was never made. It was as simple as that.
    Of course, in New York there was a strong sentiment against a mixed race fight, and Muldoon wrote about this in his book.
    The idea that Dempsey ducked Wills, who has certainly become a much better fighter since he quit fighting, because he was afraid is nonsensical. Nobody then thought that Wills, whom Ray Arcel referred to as a "good journeyman class fightefr", would beat Dempsey.
    I'm curious what book was written, that seems have been so widely read, that espoused the theory that Wills was better than Dempsey, and would have been champ but for Dempsey's cowardice? I don't read/study boxing history like I did years ago, but I had never heard this until recently.
    Sure, Wills probably deserved a shot as much as the next guy, but there was no money there so it never happened. And it saved Harry a beating.
     
    greynotsoold, Apr 6, 2012
    greynotsoold, Apr 6, 2012
    #4
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Demspey strongly disagrees with you on that one!

    his retort is

    "I wanted to fight him. I knew it would have made a lot of money for both of us."
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    #5
  6. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    So basically Dempsey wasn't a racist? He did have a black sparring partner....

    All jokes aside maybe Dempsey did benefit from the color line but the fight happening shouldn't be blamed solely on Dempsey if no one wanted to promote it. The fight would do more for Wills as Dempsey's legacy was already sealed and it's unfortunate it didn't happen but I was skeptical of Dempsey "avoiding" Wills. Thanks for the share. Will do further research.
     
    techks, Apr 6, 2012
    techks, Apr 6, 2012
    #6
  7. JAB5239

    JAB5239 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Twice you've said there was no money in it while ignoring the fact Dempsey himself said there was. He was the heavyweight champion and the most popular athlete at the time, if he had really wanted this fight he would have found a way to make it. He ducked Wills just as he did Greb.
     
    JAB5239, Apr 6, 2012
    JAB5239, Apr 6, 2012
    #7
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Page 90-91; The Ring Magazine - May 2012
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    #8
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    dempsey comes firing back at you with

    "There was a color bar. They wouldn't let you fight no place."
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    #9
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    well dempsey himself actually signed to fight Wills in 22 when both were probably still prime and established as great hw's (top 15 by the great McGrain).

    I fully believe if the fight gets offered, dempsey takes it.
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    #10
  11. JAB5239

    JAB5239 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No place in the United States. As has already been pointed out he could have fought in Cuba or several other countries.
     
    JAB5239, Apr 6, 2012
    JAB5239, Apr 6, 2012
    #11
  12. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    Me too or he wouldn't have signed the fight or called him out. Fair to say racial politics of the time prevented the fight. I need to do more research on Wills but of course Dempsey is great.

    Eager to hear of Dempsey's response to this.
     
    techks, Apr 6, 2012
    techks, Apr 6, 2012
    #12
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Dempsey would probably reply with

    "Rickard wanted to make the fight, but there was no place you could put it on."
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    #13
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    exactly how I see it.

    if he really didn't wanna fight him he'd have thrown his belt in the bin or something :lol:
     
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    lufcrazy, Apr 6, 2012
    #14
  15. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    :lol: at Bowe reference
     
    techks, Apr 6, 2012
    techks, Apr 6, 2012
    #15
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