dempsy vs lyle....

Flynn KO'ed Dempsey. Carpentier and Brennan rocked him. Firpo bounced him like a ball ... Lyle had the power to take Dempsey's head off

 

Agreed

 

Ron could punch, but his punching speed was below average.

Dempsey, by all accounts, was fast.

But Ron did have a good chin.

Very tough call.

 

Ron had an OKAY chin. He got rocked by every decent fighter he ever faced. He got rocked by Young, Ali, Quarry, and Ledoux, All lesser punchers then Dempsey. I think Dempsey counter punches and stops him

 

Dempsey, by all accounts, was not fas, but preternaturally fast. As in, unreal. There are time corrected tapes of his Willard affair that boggle the mind. If he was that good in his unfilmed fights on the way to the title he has a very great chance of finishing Lyle before the end of the first three minutes. By all accounts, he was exactly that good.

 

how many of ali's challengers would beat dempsey ??
besides lyle

 

Dempsey was young in the Flynn fight but came back from all those fights even Firpo (who could Hit and was wild) but Dempsey had speed and Lyle was known for his losses to Quarry, Ali,Foreman and Cooney, he had a win over a gassed Shavers but despite his size and muscles was not an upper tier puncher, Lyle could punch but could he hit harder than Quarry, I don't think so....Dempsey on the other had could punch and he had speed to boot...If you don't think he had speed just look at the Carpentier fight, the Firpo fight or the battle of the long count....Lyle was held to a draw by light heavyweight Peralta 6" under 200lb and dominated by 6" 200 lb Jerry Quarry, he could not stop 6" 200lb Lou Bailey and other than Shavers and the 1st Middleton fight never stopped anyone once he moved up to fighting contenders.

The dummys that make me laugh and say Lyle would stop Dempsey quick did not see the Bob Stallings fight or the Peralta fights, nor Quarry, nor Wendell Newton, nor Bonavena,nor Bugner,nor Ellis,nor Stan Ward...Lyle was the 1st so called puncher to trade with Foreman but lets face it the younger Foreman avoided guys like Bonavena and Quarry for a reason and Foreman was KO'd by Ali and dropped by Jimmy Young, now how many other Heavyweights did Jimmy Young drop?

 

You, sir, have not been paying attention lately. Otherwise, you would know that Super Ron Lyle is the most powerful puncher and dynamic performer in the history of fistiana. Did you know he once fought George Foreman? And that he won due to the obscure 2 knockdown rule? And did you know he did 5000 push-ups an hour while incarcerated? Have you seen his glorious muscularity? Why, it gets me in a lather just thinking about it.

Start paying more attention before you reply with such rubbish.

 

Dempsey was young against Flynn but Flynn was ancient and KO'ed Dempsey. Not the three quick knockdowns and the ref stopping the fight legend, Flynn iced him. Dempsey was out for over thirty seconds ...

I pick Dempsey to win. I just flat out state that Lyle did have the power to flatten him if he got hit and fought stupid ... a weakness he displayed on many ocasions ..

 

he, what heavyweight champion in history,hasn't been rocked,dropped, or
stopped in his career ? Vertually NONE.Boxing is nothing but a horserace,and it is which horse get's to the finish line first..I believe Dempsey,did a dive in the first Flynn fight. His wife testified to that. At any rate, with food in his belly,one year later Dempsey flattened Flynn in one round. carpentier rocked Jack. So what .Carpentier had a laser righthand which flattened heavyweights
Beckett,Bomb. Billy Wells, the tough Battling Levinsky etc.No shame to be
momentarily stunned by a Carpentier right hand. Dempsey got serious pronto
and flattened Georges. Bill Brennan was a tough strong 200 pounder, who could hit hard. Dempsey again took care of business.Firpo, whatever his faults was an ox, and a powerful right hand puncher. He dropped the surprised Dempsey once, and stunned him with that powerful clubbing right and shoved Jack through the ropes,onto a typewriter. It was Firpo,who was
BOUNCED like a ball SEVEN times. But Dempsey flattened the oxlike Firpo in the second round with two punches,in close,so fast it boggles the mind.
But aside from Gene Tunney who wisely waited for the rusty Dempsey who
didn't fight in 3 years, before tackling Jack, Dempsey always got to the finish line FIRST...Who was tougher,faster,more rugged,with a kill or be killed,
attitude,that was truly surpassed by another heavyweight ? He get's to the finish line first. That's what counts...cheers...

 

well put burt. i think the point is well taken that a PRIME dempsey was not as vulnerable as a young, malnourished dempsey or a old, lazy dempsey. he was susceptible to right hands (straight counters and wild overhands) but at his peak (which we unfortunately have little footage of and didn't last long) he was quick and aggressive enough to nullify this.

lyle had power but i don't think it was better than firpo, who as bb said, just couldn't keep dempsey down. no matter what you think of the out of the ring knockdown, he got up and finished firpo in style. i'm imagining a faster, sharper and more pinpoint dempsey against a smart, hard punching and fantastically strong lyle.

lyle, if he has a chance to get off could establish some physicality, slow the pace down and set up some punches to make it interesting. i don't see dempsey giving him that chance

dempsey KO 2

 

Guys, let's not bow to the Dempsey statue at Mt . Rushmore here , again ... I'm not asking for any of you to pick the fight film of the fight and the quality opponent that Jack displayed his legendary skill set against a top opponent as it does not exist. I have asked this straight up and despite all the talk of how glowingly he was reviewed by writers of his time and their grand kids no one has been able to actually show it on film ... I am simply responding to Bummy's statement that he felt Lyle lacked the power to hurt Dempsey, a statement I think is way off .. considering he was hurt badly by Johnson, Flynn, Smith, Carpentier, Brennan, Firpo, Sharkey and Tunney at least ...

 

can you find fighters not hurt by other top fighters at heavyweight? besides...the ****ing guy lost to jerry quarry...are you now arguing that quarry was better then dempsey....

 

You should be addressing this to Bummy ... he wrote that Lyle could not hurt Dempsey ... perhaps you should try reading the thread a bit more carefully before making posts completely off point ...

 

You are misquoting me again He Grant...any heavyweight could be hurt by another, my point is Lyle is another heavyweight known for his losses. I see nothing in Lyle's wins or losses to suggest he would walk through Dempsey, In fact I favor Dempsey to stop Lyle because of his speed,power and solid chin...my point is Lyle is overated as a puncher and despite his muscular prison physique it did not equate to one punch power but of course any heavyweight can hurt another ....Dempsey stops Lyle