Dennis mccann

The difference with James Toney, though, was he was a phenomenal athlete, but one with an eating disorder.

Ironically, Donald McRae covers a prime Toney in his book Dark Trade; around the time he was a middleweight, Jackie Kallen intentionally kept him really busy between fights, as he had no discipline and would blow up.

Watch some videos of Toney; at his peak, he was a masterful boxer, like an artist going to work, especially against Barkley, but he will have spent the majority of his time in training camps simply losing the excess weight.

Hence why he plateaued skill-wise, looked flat in a lot of fights and why someone like Tiberi ran him close, but he was still too good for the much slower, pondering heavyweights, despite all the weight he ended up carrying and bulking up to.

His two fights against McCallum were pure class, and this was around the time when Eubank, Watson, and Benn were fighting one another, but Toney v. McCallum 1 & 2 were on another level. This was also the VHS era; my grandad had an extensive collection back then, and he would sit me down whenever I visited and educate me. The only good thing that man ever did for me was give me an interest in the sport.

Used to take me to his LEBA meetings at times as well; recall meeting Watson there as a kid, just after he beat Benn; when he was in his physical prime, he had this quiet, calm, confident aura about him, an incredibly nice person too who made time for everyone, especially me.

Then, for 10 rounds, 2 minutes and 55 seconds, he boxed the fight of his life in the rematch against Eubank, and then his life forever changed.

Imagine something like that happening now and finding out the other guy was on PEDs; people like Hearn just don't give a ****, but someone else will end up being the patsy scapegoat, more than likely Frank Smith.

 

Toney is one of the most naturally gifted fighters I've ever seen, but outside of the ring is where he let himself down. He actually massively underachieved is his career, which sounds crazy to say given what he did.

 

As suggested on this thread, if they are 'all on the gear' including his opponent, that is undermining the great win by Andy Ruiz up against a bigger athletic undefeated opponent.

Is there a suggestion that his opponent took a break from the gear that night explaining the loss?

I would like to stick to my thoughts that Andy Ruiz rocked the world with a great performance.

 

100%

Freddie Roach said if James Toney had the discipline of Manny Pacquiao, he would have been the greatest fighter of all time, because he was so natural and measured distance so well.

 

I've read slightly different versions in different books, one by Lewis and the other in the Dirtiest Race in History.

Quoting exact from the book it said " The strangest incident involving Johnson in LA involved another Lewis, not Carl but Lennox – then boxing for Canada before he moved to Britain and became world heavyweight champion Johnson had the key to his room hanging around his neck, which was a problem when he went to play pool because it got in the way. So he put it on a chair. It vanished. Six hours later, according to Johnson, Lewis brought it back. The time may be an exaggeration – there are inconsistencies in the accounts. What is not in doubt is that when Lewis re-appeared, Johnson flipped. Lewis responded to the yelling by putting Johnson in a headlock. In theory it was a mismatch: Johnson’s opponent was seven inches taller as well as being a champion fighter, but he managed to flip him over his shoulder and send him sprawling over the pool table. Unfortunately, he strained his neck in the process, which he said hampered him in the 100m. "

Egerton Marcus added some context here.

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It’s time people grew up about the issue. Especially the tiny % who bizarrely don’t take gear. Who’s the 3 big money men in the sport this minute. Fury, Canelo and Joshua. They all have over £100m in the bank and all are without question, 1’000’000% on gear. That’s what sells. That’s the brand the public want. What’s the point of being a Ned Flanders about the issue and being ‘pure and natural’? There’s no dolly mixtures in ‘ere poofters. This is the sport that from day one has been run by murderers and gangsters. Meanwhile you’re going to get scared and disfigured for life while barely making minimum wage while competing and holding down a second job too. Time to grow up and join the serious professionals. To not take gear is like claiming to be a top, elite level tradesman while buying all your tools in the Pound Shop.

 

Toney also got a dodgy Doctors note saying he needed ‘TRT’ for life so was allowed to blast test legally even after he failed a test.

 

Plus, with a doping culture, others are pressured to conform or be ostracised.

I read Christophe Bassons book, and he was arguably as naturally talented as Lance Armstrong, yet refused to conform. He may get the respect and plaudits now, but at the time he was treated like an outcast for essentially being a truth teller, same with David Walsh.

Quoting the book :

• As for me, I had turned everyone against me. For the first time, I had openly come out against the system. I had done so in the heat of anger and because of the sordid squabbling over money. I had shown my colours behind closed doors. Despite this, I was on my own and had suddenly become a figure of suspicion. Like drugs eating away at the body, doping was slowly destroying the team. Festina became bedlam and, more worryingly, a laboratory of hellish practices. Alex Zülle arrived with his own soigneur, Marcello Torrontegui. The Spaniard, Dr Michele Ferrari’s test-tube baby, had looked after Tony Rominger when the Swiss rider was pulverising the hour record for fun. Compared with this expert, Willy Voet’s star suddenly faded.

Plus, look how Lance treated David Walsh at the time; boxing will be no different from how professional cycling was run, probably why Victor Conte is so hated now, because he knows doping from the inside out, along with any journalist like McRae who speaks out. You can see why people become so disillusioned with it all and walk away.

What you're left with is a corrupt sport that's almost cult-like, with charlatans running it, surrounded by enabling sycophants, who are scared to lose their meal ticket, hence why the social media guys never ask real questions. The fighters are uneducated in the main, from poor backgrounds, broken homes, and carrying generational trauma, with professional boxing and their athletic talent being their only opportunity to get out from the dysfunctional environment in which they were raised.

Thus a fast-talking sociopathic snake oil salesman with bad hair, selling them a dream, suddenly becomes an enticing proposition.

 

Well obviously skills and talent are still a key factor, steroids aren't magic. Tommy Fury is on gear and has been boxing his whole life yet can only just about beat youtubers.

 

Have we heard anything about what the substances were?

 

I don't think it really matters at this point; the kid unfortunately has neither the clout nor the money of Whyte and Benn. Fish-Eyes has already distanced himself and effectively thrown him under the bus.

Nine-time amateur champion, boxing since he was a kid, unbeaten pro, boxing will be all he knows and his whole world; hopefully, he's got good people around him that have his back, as it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, plus rock bottom normally comes with a fully fitted basement attached.

They should consider renaming professional boxing Russian Roulette because it's becoming the ultimate game of chance any time a fighter is tested.

What would a ban typically be at this point?

 

I don't think its unfortunate at all, if he won 9 amateur titles etc without being on it then suddenly getting on it seems a silly decision, plenty have succeeded without although it is rife , only the idiots get caught.

What may be unfortunate is that he probably hasn't got many good people around him hence why something like this has happened.

 

Yup.

But I was looking through some of the books I had previously read on the cyclists in and around the Armstrong era, and some of the improvements on the PEDs to without are vast. Plus he will have sparred and trained with those whom he came up with, and if someone you run rings around as an amateur is suddenly bashing you around in sparring, it is what it is.

Plus, look what happened to Khan when he went over to the States and started up with Roach and Ariza; he almost became a different fighter overnight, which went a long way beyond a simple reinvention under Roach. From getting sparked out in under a minute to suddenly taking Madiana's best shots, McCann made a similar move recently.

The sport is ****ed, and Christophe Basson's book gives a good insight into the pressures in top-level sport, as does Tyler Hamilton's.

 

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Seems a tricky one to get out of

 

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