Deontay Wilder Falls Back Into 1973 while being in a deep sleep.

There were too many horror stories for me, including dead bodybuilder Rich Piana's internal organs having swelled to twice their normal size directly due to steroids.

I have no love for doing something that will make me a temporary freak. Back in the 80s I used to think all those bodybuilding champs were so great, and in a way they were: they had the genetics and they busted their butts. But they all used steroids...that's something I didn't know in the 80s, and when the truth came out I lost a lot of respect for druggy lifters (I didn't get it back since, either).

To me, someone like Ray Williams is more worthy of my admiration. Here's a man who squatted well over 1,000 lbs in a drug tested meet, without half the supportive equipment used in a "drug meet".

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People benching over 1,100 lbs on steroids mean nothing to me.

Here's the druggy squat "record" of 1,300 lbs. I can't believe people believe this is a squat to just below parrallel. It shows the insanity of the steroid mentality:

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But that's just my take.

 

Oh my gosh, my friend. That's scary.

I had to back down on my Creatine intake from 25 milligrams to 5 because my kidney doctor was worried about that. He said it was the either or both the heavy protein intake and creatine.

...now I'm really wondering.

 

Won by Foreman

 

Wow a true cautionary tale.
There is ambiguity about what drugs are safe at which level, & always the temptation to try to get away with more.
But even if one does not get the unusual, immediate repercussions & damage you described, bad results including chronic diseases, structural damage & death, may be just a few or many years away.
Ronnie Coleman has had numerous surgeries & been crippled for years-& stupidly the only regret he expressed is only doing a double with an 800 something lb. dealift when he think 4 was possible.

Creatine is not in that category, but how much of that 10% is lost, some or all, when one stops it entirely?
But for steroids HGH & their potentiators, I feel strongly that it is bad on principle to go down this dark path.
Ego gets attached to this unnatural state & progress, & it cheapens the meaning & ethos of relying on who you are & hard work, putting results above principles & Respect for your own body & potential.

There are numerous videos online with true nightmarish stories.
And titles like "36 bodybuilders who died of steroids in 2021".
John you are one of the Top Poster here Forever.
Did you moderate the heavy lifting routine & focus on general fitness over time?
I just did a (slow, jogging, costumed) 5K with family like last year, & my stiff legs reminds me that lifting or low impact cardio machines or shadow boxing are not well conditioning you for the simple challenge of running lol!

And Rules: adequate protein is far more important that Creatine.
But how much do you take? 1 gram per lb. (if normal body fat) is the usual recommendation, & I think only maybe during a growth phase is up to 1.5X helpful-but if you are already ~ your limit, that will be a waste, you cannot build significant new muscle.
Also there is only so much you can absorb in one sitting-maybe up to 40 grams for an average sized man if that, you maybe 50-that too much at one time & it IS a strain on your kidneys.

So I am saying do not go much over 1 gram, anywhere

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1.5, which will be plenty IF you take at least 5/6 meals/shakes a day.
But you can also experiment with a max of 1 gram per lb. daily-over many meals)-& IF within say 2 months, if doing all else the same way you lose no strength or mass...

Even a man of your size should easily be able to maintain mass & stay at a max of ~ 240-300 grams a day.
I hope you are not doing much more!

 

Right, & since PEDs tend to permit permanent changes in the muscle cells & strength capacities-like recruiting extra nucleii for muscle cells-those who are lifetime clean & very strong are more impressive.

As for the judging at meets, I recall a gym member describing the International Powerlifting Association as the IPA:
I'll Pass Anything.

 

Hey, great post! It's true, carry over from treadmill, etc. isn't too pronounced when you're going on a run.

Weighing a tad over 250, I take in about 280 grms of protein a day, most of it red meat. I find that, due to my heavy squatting and powerlifting in general I have to get a lot of calories, so some of that is from foods that many lifters shun like peanut butter, ice cream. When I lower my calories too much (even if I'm maintaining ample protein) my lifts and recovery suffer.

I do the treadmill 3 times a week, about 15 mins a whack. I used to HATE cardio, but my wife really got me into it and I learned how beneficial it is to recovery. I used to only be able to go heavy on my lifts (indeed, lift at all) about twice a week, since I've started cardio (plus more involved stretching) it's 4x. HUGE difference, and my lifts go up steadily.

And sorry for burglarizing this thread folks. I am a fan of Deontay (my fave fighter today), but if he went back to 1973 Foreman would put him back to sleep in short order.

 

I am surprised you like Deontay, you cannot be accused of following the crowd my friend!
His power & heart is undeniable, but makes Foreman look like a boxing wizard, & is not very mature or seemingly well in his personal life...

Your diet sounds great & makes very good sense-assuming you are taking those presumably complete proteins in at least 5, preferably 6 meals.
Why? You can absorb nurtrients better, even at your size I dunno if you can process more tha 50 grams at a time, & the excess is a stress on your kidneys. However divide the same reasonable quantity for your muscle mass, activity & goals over 6 meals, that seems fine!

I am surprised cardio & stretching effected your recovery so much!
Especially since you do not do much.
You likely know that doing too much will enervate the system & tends to lean you out.
However I think the science shows that (unless it is intensive commando/interval training) 20 minutes is the minimum amount recommended for aerobic benefit. And the rate of benefit declines at 30 minutes...

So as long as you are doing this, best to add at least 5, & up to 15 minutes of cardio.
You still progressing with such a minor intervention AT your size & age-at just about 6' tall I guess you are now relatively lean at 250, I'm gonna guess around 15% BF...

Is impressive indeed!

 

It's certainly a mugs game, the roids.

I focused on strength building and the other benefits flowed on. After a while i discovered my best gains (everyone is different and you have to work things out for yourself) in the 6-8 reps range. I also discovered that while 6 week programs were common i went stale quicker and actually did 3 week programs. So once i got my rep range and program duration sorted i did old school type exercises and mixed bar and free weights. I'll openly admit i didn't push myself near to 100% because i knew i would burn out interest wise. I was happy with my gains over the years and once i hit a certain level i was reasonably content. The trainer used to up us all the time, you lot don't know your potential you have no idea what level you could make blah blah blah. I'd rather be stagnating somewhat than no longer going to the gym! I wasn't exactly lazy either i used to push fair weight and go pretty hard. I actually punched thru a chest plateau and got some great gains by doing two cycles with no flat bench at all be it bar or free weights - loads of dips and heavy tricep work along with heavy incline work.

Foreman sleeps Wilder Rich!!!!!!!!

 

Much as I love Wilder and think he's underrated, It's honestly a no-brainer. It's sad how many long-term posters think Wilder wins or that it's a 50-50 fight.

 

I was unsure what "mugs" precisely meant, so I found "(1) : fool, blockhead. (2) : a person easily deceived. b : punk, thug. mug." &
Also, gullible, easily cheated, & defined as British: "someone who is easily deceived or slightly stupid".
Sadly this tends to define those seduced by peer pressure, vanity & insecurity into using especially recreational PEDs.
Even when they accomplish what is expected, it is a fake, always dangerous way to aquire an image or feed the ego.
With temperamental/emotional & spiritual consequences...

So I doubt you stayed as dedicated for so many years, however did you maintain say the majority of your gains?
I am happy being no more than in the broad proximity of what my max level was, but a bit leaner & eating ~3 meals a day.
But it was fun playing with board presses, weighted bench dips, bands on squat bars...
And something like "pin presses" where if the bar was a near ideal, short distance from where you pushed it, you could squeeze it to lock out & let it collapse...
I once got 3 reps with 545 lbs. with this, over 200 lbs. more than I could ever get for a triple with a good form full range of motion B.P.!
Makes you feel stronger than anything due to the ease of the exercise.

 

I do pin presses regularly, great way to up your power.

545 is INSANE, congratulations!!!

 

Nah it is only pretty good, I did over 50% more than I could ever press for a single rep *because* doing just enough ROM to get leverage is so much easier. I am sure you can smoke that!
When you wrote about your Dr. saying you gotta cut back on the Creatine or protein, I hope you choose the former-& confrm if you have that reasonable, presumably complete proteins for your LBM...Over not less than 6 meals.
Having more protein than you can absorb is a strain on the kidneys!

 

Oh i totally agree - steroids are an absolute Drongo's game!!! Way too many plonkers go that way tho for quicker easier gains.

I am way down now as i haven't been back in the gym for two decades. I never set any gym records that's for sure. There was a Kiwi guy, a wild estimate is he was maybe 200-210. He used to do close grip exclusively and his goal, man it was 170 or 180kg, maybe the latter at a guess. After i joined it must have taken him a year to get there, he'd chase a max about once a month on it. Happy to say i was there when he nailed it. That's just short of 400 pounds and around double his bodyweight - with a close grip. The trainer powerlifter was weakest in the bench vs deadlifts and squats (he was super strong in these), he used to bench 189kg or so in comps from memory but i wish i could remember his damn squats and deads. They were big.

Actually i just found some stats -

https://www.openpowerlifting.org/u/petersmith

 

Results from many years ago, wow!
And you made me look up those slang, although I knew it was something like that-means you are British John?

I am confused-his bench seems the weakest even in relative terms in the results (except I do not know what that 'lil "270" right across from wraps means, nor the "dots"...
This guy who specialized in close grip benches was relatively weak in regular BPs?
I mean just compared to his other numbers, which are quite impressive.
At least IF he was natural.