Deontay Wilder vs Jack Johnson

I saw him get beat up and he lost his legs after the first knockdown but I didn’t think he was gassed. He was still strong at the end of their first fight, which went the distance.

I don’t know how you could look at Wilder’s career and say he has a stamina problem.

And you’re basing this off one fight with a very physical 6-foot-9, 275-pound monster that he would be worn out by a “Galveston Giant” who was all of 6 feet tall and about 220? LOL.

 

I have to admit this is an extremely intriguing match-up. I think Johnson could handle himself for the majority of the fight, perhaps a big majority, but we all know the truth about Wilder, that he only needs to win a second of the fight. Something about Johnson's stance worries me that he won't get out of the way at some point. The only way proven to beat Wilder is to out-man him, wear him down... He has a lot of heart and more durability than often given credit for. I think it takes a physical specimen (which Fury with his comb of speed, agility and insane size most definitely is) to accomplish this task... (or it did, not sure Wilder has really recovered from his first loss.)

 

The horror, the horror
Brando viewing wilders last bout

 

sure it is. Burns, Langford, Ketchel, Flynn, McVey, Jeannette, were all considerably smaller. His best wins were either smaller, washed up, or still very green. He wouldn’t be able to toss Wilder around and rag doll him like he could Burns.

 

McVea smaller than Johnson? In what universe?

Of course you also missed Martin, Jeffries, Kauffman, Felix, Jeffords, Ferguson, Klondike and others.

 

An Ancient recently morbidly obese turned shell of a Jeffries is hardly a game fighter of size Jeffords had a very poor record (literally half his fights were losses) Felix had 24 wins and 20 losses, Ferguson had a very poor record, (38 wins and 25 losses?? LMAO) Klondike also had a very poor record. Kaufman while not as abysmal a record as most others you've mentioned, was still a relative journeyman (22 wins, 7 losses, nearly a quarter of his fights still being losses). Even Martin while the best of all you've mentioned, still has a mediocre 35/9 record....

Listing a bunch of journeymen (most with abhorrent records) and a crumbling historic relic doesn't help your argument.

 

I don’t know. Two totally different worlds.

 

Depends on the era. Either way I can’t envision it.

 

There hasn't been anyone remotely similar to Johnson in decades, and the rules have drastically changed 4-6x since Johnson retired. Very difficult to really compare these two.

I guess the closest comparison would have been John Ruiz, but Ruiz never fought anyone remotely like Wilder whose pretty unique himself. His raw punching power is abnormally high even for heavyweights and he has unusual athleticism for a 6'7 guy with basketball reflexes.

So basically it's almost impossible to wrap my head around this. Johnson's rule set allowed for plenty of rough inside fighting and the refs were often lenient with the wrestling and smothering tactics Johnson loved. They had longer fights, different gloves, different rings, often fought at a slower pace, often fought outdoors, diets/medicine/training methods different, etc. It would be illogical to just take Wilder as is and dump him in there with a few weeks crash course to adjust.

It would be equally unfair to have Johnson just get flung into the future where probably 1/3 boxers is on something to boost their performance and at least half of them are getting away with something that's borderline illegal or completely illegal. Then there's the culture shock of weight lifting, shorter rounds, getting points deducted for excessive clinching, neutral corner after a knockdown, etc.

 

This.

I give Wilder more of a chance than vice-versa if they have one fight in each era. There's a strong possibility that technique hadn't fully optimized during Johnson's era...even for their own rules. The PED thing helps Wilder, too, because PEDs aren't suddenly going to become useless in the world of 1910.

Under modern rules, it is short and brutal. Johnson gets brought up in these fantasy fight discussions because he's got a reality distortion forcefield -- courtesy of Fleischer -- that prevents people from seeing that Johnson's technique looks as bad as his contemporaries'. But good reputations can't stop Wilder's punches.

Pick 'em under old timey rules. I lean toward Wilder based on my suspicions.

Wilder by early KO today.

 

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So you learnt how to use boxrec? Good for you, now you can go a bit further.

 

You should refute those claims and build a case man. He isn’t lying Jack Johnson’s best wins against modern sized HWs are far from grand. Boxrec or not it still stands.

 

I don't need to, it was talked to death on this forum.

I didn't say that Johnson's best wins were against modern sized HWs, they weren't. There is a lot of room between "modern sized HWs" and "either smaller, washed up, or still very green".

 

Who do you consider Johnson’s let’s say three best wins?