Deontay Wilder vs Joe Frazier

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KeedCubano, Jan 26, 2020.


  1. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Member Full Member

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    I'm not sure Ortiz is necessarily better than Stiverne, but Wilder struggled with Ortiz's technically ability, but pulled the KO out the bag. My point is that given Wilder looked worse in the rematch he's possibly fading. Not that Fury wouldn't always beat him.

    Foreman isn't 'light years beyond Wilder', George Foreman possibly has better short punches but Wilder has better long punches and more speed. Foreman lost to a cruserweight in Young in his prime and went life and death with Lyle who definitely isn't as good as Wilder. Why can't Frazier perform as well as Lyle in 2 fights? Or Young?

    Where are these SHW big punchers Frazier has beat? Why was he hurt against Bonavena? Quarry? Ali?
     
  2. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Facts: Frazier fought two guys with a higher ATG standing than Wilder. He went 1-4 against them with three stoppage losses, two one sidedly. The win occurred past the opponent’s prime.
     
  3. KeedCubano

    KeedCubano Member Full Member

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    Jerry Quarry was a greater HW than Wilder could ever dream of being
     
  4. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Wrong. Wilder is way past him in ATG standings.
     
  5. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Member Full Member

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    Are we playing everyone from the past was better game? Make boxing great again, new rules the HW weight limit is 210lbs, if you're heavier you automatically lose.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Why are people talking like Wilder's past it? In his last 4 fights he's drastically improved his technique and accuracy as well as fighting more sensibly. He's started using his jab more and even thrown a couple body shots against Fury last night.

    Wilder was smack bang in his prime and Fury beat the **** outta him. Stop making excuses.
     
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  7. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sorry but we'll have to agree to disagree.

    Wilder can't fight and has been shown up by his first, genuinely world class opponent, somewhere near to his prime, in Fury (twice), having already been made to look more than a bit clueless against a creaking Ortiz, who himself never beat anyone of note, anyway.

    Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Young... ...are all on another sphere of ability, compared to Wilder.

    And, by the way, this is not about resumes. Even if it were, Wilder's ledger is paper thin and no match against the resumes of those greats you seem so comfortable dismissing.

    The thread concerns a speculative head-to-head match up and Frazier demonstrated more consistency against a better class of opponent than wilder, by a long chalk - so much so that it's not realistically debatable.
     
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  8. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's a pity for you that this is a head-to-head debate and not about resumes, ratings and quite frankly relatively insignificant factoids you consistently use to move the goalposts with.

    In terms of who the better fighter is, prime-for-prime... ...Frazier > Wilder
     
  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Frazier didn’t exist at the same time as guys like Fury. Fury would have a field day with him. No draws.
     
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  10. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What has that got to do with anything?

    You do understand the concept of a fantasy matchup, don't you?
     
  11. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Yes. I take into account things like size, reach, and power. I don’t weigh in heavily a performance against a crafty 6’9 270 pounder when discussing a fantasy fight against a 5’10 205 pounder.
     
  12. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Member Full Member

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    If you're referring to myself I stated Fury always beats Wilder, as he deserved the decision in the first fight. But Wilder is 34, performed worse in the Ortiz rematch and Fury himself stated Fury would be older in the rematch. Fighters stamina is waning in the mid-30s
     
  13. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    What's wrong with Quarry > Wilder? Quarry has a respectable résumé, Wilder's is ****. Wilder's entire title run is over bums and guys rated outside of the top 20 bar two fighters, one of which beat him twice. Wilder's only two note-worthy wins are Ortiz and Stiverne. Ortiz hasn't beaten anyone ranked since 2015, who wasn't very good anyway, and was a 39 YO, flatfooted, light hitting featherfist. A 36 Y/O, placid Stiverne, who's résumé is also paper thin, is Wilder's best win...

    Even with 10 title defences, Wilder would **** himself if he accomplished half of what Quarry did.
     
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  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    I'm referring to everyone making excuses to be honest. Wilder's right hand has improved levels over the last year, he was on top of the world when Fury thrashed him, saying Wilder was past prime is an excuse imo, as he clearly isn't. Fury beat that ass. Twice.
     
  15. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Member Full Member

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    Okay if we're going to be oversimplistic and say a world champion boxer 'can't fight' because of a loss to a great. We'll have to agree Frazier can't fight because he was George Foreman's basketball that he'd bounce around the court for fun. So Joe Frazier isn't a fighter then? Good to know, except I don't believe this and neither should you regarding Wilder. Styles make fights

    And are you really playing the rose tinted 'everyone from the 70s was better than today' game?

    And are we calling boxers resumes 'paper thin'. Okay fair play, Foreman, Frazier, Norton and Young all had paper thin resumes. I mean Young really? I mean Young probably beat a **** version of Ali but neither were good at that stage.
     


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