Deontay Wilder vs prime George Foreman

Yeah there seems to be a pattern of people who give Wilder no credit what so ever and think of him as bum. And then theres the other side who think Wilder just wins because hes in modern era.

But really despite Wilder's height hes not that big compared to 70s Heavyweights, Wilder is very slim and has weighed in as low as 214 and has come in alot at 220s and hes not that strong physically. The exception was when Wilder came in at 238 vs Fury the 3rd time, but in actual fact the extra weight didn't suit him as he gassed after only few rounds.

I understand Wilder does have a chance against some of the older guys because of his power, reach, range, but Wilder is still limited skill wise. And power can only get you so far and you will be found wanting against more skilled ATG Heavyweights.

 

Wilder has a good heart but it sits on two chicken legs and a weak chin. Foreman by KO in 2

 

Well - wouldn't you know it. I cannot find the reports that indicated a clean sweep of rounds (It was probably a Dick Sadler interview ). But I did find some pieces indicating it wasn't a great performance - or should I say, not the type of performance expected, given Foreman's growing reputation as a KO artist. Overall, there was a mixed and mostly fair response to the card.


Here's what I was able to transcribe (and perhaps note a couple of comments about Foreman's speed):



The Columbian
Tuesday, May 11, 1971


Foreman KO's Peralta in 10th

OAKLAND (AP)

*****

If George Foreman didn’t earn a shot at the heavyweight title he at last earned a rest.
"I'll give him a day or two off. He wasn't hurt, so he doesn’t need a long rest,” Foreman's manager Dick Sadler said, after his young fighter stayed undefeated with Monday 10th-round knockout of Gregorio Peralta.

Foreman the World Boxing No 1 ranked contender scored the only knockout in a heavyweight tripleheader carried on closed circuit television.

Former WBA champions Ernie Terrell and Jimmy Ellis won 10-round unanimous decisions in the first two fights.

Terrell, fighting at 219 pounds, continued a comeback effort by beating Brazilian Luis Pires 215 in Chicago.

At Toronto, Ellis, 191 pounds, took lots of punishment in late rounds but decisioned 218-pound George Chuvalo who fought most of the way with blood pouring from cuts on his face.

The 22-year-old Foreman, facing his first 15-round test, hurt the veteran Peralta early with left jabs and hooks and finished him off by battering him into the ropes twice in the 10th.

It was his 25th knockout in 28 professional fights.

Foreman at 216 1/2 pounds was 21 pounds heavier than the 36-year-old South American. He was also considerably faster than the opponent who gave him his toughest fight 15 months ago.

Peralta, who lost a unanimous but unpopular decision to Foreman last year in New York, was cut over the eye in the third and staggered with two solid left hooks in the seventh.

Foreman never knocked Peralta to the canvas but referee Elmer Costa made the Argentine take a mandatory eight-count after he lay helplessly against the ropes near the end of the 10th.

Peralta was blasted into the ropes again and Costa awarded Foreman the knockout at 2:52 of the round.
“The referee did the correct thing. We have no objections" said one of Peralta's handlers.

Sadler, speaking for his fighter said, “We’re looking ahead to Joe Frazier”.

Attendance figures from 130 closed circuit television locations should determine whether Monday night's program was a financial flop, as the disappointing live gates indicated.

Crowds of about 6000 were at the Oakland Coliseum Arena for the Foreman-Peralta fight and at Toronto's Maple Leaf Gardens for the Ellis-Chuvalo.

*****



Arizona Daily Star
Wed, May 12, 1971

Still Learning Foreman Admits

OAKLAND (AP)

*****

George Foreman seems to have only one hand — a quick, hard left — ready to take into the ring against world heavyweight champion Joe Frazier.
"I'm still learning," the undefeated, 22-year-old Foreman said, discussing the troubles he had landing solid rights In his knockout victory over Argentina's Gregorio Peralta Monday night.

The former Olympic champion from Hayward Calif., landed very few rights until the final rounds. The scheduled 15-rounder was stopped at 2:52 of the 10th, with Peralta helpless on the ropes.

Although he's the World Boxing Association's top-ranked contender, Foreman is unlikely to get a shot at Frazier until after a Frazier-Muhammad Ali rematch. Frazier beat Ali in March.

Foreman's manager, Dick Sadler, said Tuesday that Harry Markson of Madison Square Garden in New York would like Foreman to fight there against Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry or Ali.

The chances of arranging a meeting with Ali are not good, Sadler said, "but we want to keep busy. Patterson or Quarry would be fine with us."

After the victory over Peralta, Sadler said the other contenders "are all behind us now."

Foreman, asked if he thought his lefts would be effective against Frazier, answered, "The only thing Ali did against him was land that left. That speaks for itself."

At 216 pounds, Foreman had a 21-pound advantage against Peralta. He was also taller, faster and 14 years younger than his opponent. But. 15 months ago at Madison Square Garden, Foreman had to settle for a 10-round decision over the Argentine, who admitted Monday night: "He fought better than he did before."

*****



Continues in next post...

 

Star Tribune
Wed, May 12, 1971


...Continued from previous post.



(excerpt)

Too much and too poor


Promoters of that three-fight, three-city, 30-round boxing spectacle (spectacle?) Monday night must have learned something.

They must have learned that it isn't the closed circuit television screen which sells tickets merely by being a television screen. Tickets are sold by the attraction that is projected onto the screen, and these promoters didn't have the attraction.

It was interesting, and an item in the boxing record, that George Foreman knocked out Gregorio Peralta in the 10th round. However, to see that, the audiences had to watch Jimmy Ellis outbox George Chuvalo for 10 rounds and Ernie Terrell, a crowd repellant, outbox Luis Pires for 10 more rounds.

Each fight was a good enough club show, if presented as such, but none of them not even the Foreman-Peralta fight was enough to interest a paying national television audience. And the three, taken together, only compounded the futility of the promotion.

Peralta, rated eighth by the World Boxing Association, is a seasoned, cagey veteran with an excellent South American record; and they have good fighters down there. The news report said that Foreman won their first fight, in Madison Square Garden, on a disputed decision. I didn't hear any disputes. I thought Foreman had the fight well in hand, but he did lose the last round, the same in which he scored a technical knockout Monday.

The WBA rates Foreman No. 1 challenger to Frazier, the champion. This is because it does not recognize Muhammad Ali at all not as former champion, not as contender, not as a living being. Ali is altogether banished from the WBA mind. If Ali is recognized at all he must rate ahead of Foreman on his long record and on the hard, punishing 15-round fight he gave Frazier.

Foreman probably deserves the next place in the ratings. Just the same he needs to be moved with some care.

I don't think he should fight Jimmy Ellis for a while. I’d pay to see him fight Oscar Bonavena. The rest of the good heavyweights should give him little trouble, but it's time for him to start eliminating them.


Dick Cullum.

*****



Hartford Courant
Wed, May 12, 1971

With Malice Toward None

By BILL LEE
Sports Editor


AT THE PARAMOUNT THEATER in Springfield Monday night, there was an interesting contrast in fight fan interest.

Two months ago at this place, one bout jammed the joint and left everybody jumping despite a price so high it had to put some payees on short rations the next two weeks.

That was Joe Frazier against Muhammad Ali. There weren't enough seats in closed circuit theaters around the country for that one. But Tuesday night only a comparative handful showed up to see three bouts count 'em, three for the one price of admission.


PERSONNEL AT TOP WAS DIFFERENT
Same theater, same promoters, Vito Tallarita, with a new partner, Willie Pep, but a different fight card. Fight fans smelled the difference and stayed away in large numbers.

Still the show at the Paramount Monday night was a lulu for the fight fan, if perhaps a little disappointing for the boxing buff who knows a left jab is never, never, never followed by a right hook, no matter how mistakenly they describe such punches in wire service descriptions. It is physically impossible to throw a right hook unless you are a left handed fighter, but that is another story altogether.


YOU CAN'T OFTEN FOOL THE PUBLIC
The point I want to make at the moment is that the public cannot be fooled most of the time. They knew they had three bouts instead of one Monday night, that George Foreman, in the last of the three, is the leading contender for heavyweight honors and that names like Jimmy Ellis, Ernie Terrell and George Chuvalo are biggies in the fight business.

What they also recognized at fifty paces is that, except for Foreman, there wasn't a single man on the bill with anything but the slimmest kind of chance ever again to figure seriously in Heavyweight title contention.


FIRST TWO WERE GOOD FIGHTS
The first two bouts shown on television's first closed circuit tripleheader, were roof-raisers. Fight fans were howling and applauding just as though they were sniffing ringside rosin. Even before Foreman came on the screen, the fans had been given their money's worth.

Ernie Terrell, making one of those forlorn comebacks the ring knows so well, made boxing skill and a good left hand prevail over game Luis Pires. The latter made the fight by never stopping. He looked like Frazier against Ali.

In the second bout, George Chuvalo caught everything the other man threw, as he always does, without backing up. Jimmy fcius was the otner man and he never looked better. But these two have had their shots at the heavyweight title and will never threaten again. The fight fans knew this.


FOREMAN LOOKED BAD WINNING
As for George Foreman, he won big by stopping Gegorio Peralta in the tenth, but he had a little gloss rubbed off his reputation just the same. Peralta is a seasoned awkward ringman, a spoiler who can make a good fighter look bad. Foreman didn't look sharp stopping his man, but he is nevertheless the strongest boxer in the heavyweight division.

Foreman needs further schooling in how to make use of his exceptional tools. He has a good left jab and hook and throws punches with a speed almost as great as Muhammad Ali. But he was frustrated much of the time, wild with both hands and incapable of adjusting to the style of an opponent he had already beaten in a Madison Square Garden ten-rounder.

Even so, the Foreman-Peralta match was worth seeing. The other two were exciting all the way. Promoters Tallarita and Pep could have stood in the lobby taking bows had they chosen. The big things from their point of view is that they kept the closed circuit pot boiling. When they have another heavyweight contest the fans will recognize as a contest, they'll need extra seats again.

*****


It's worth noting that I did notice a couple of other articles that made mention of Foreman not being the finished product.

 

Solid work mate, very impressive. I actually have the fight reports from Boxing News, Ring and Boxing Illustrated* but they're in the loft and I hoped you'd come up with the goods. Nice one.


* Well, not this one as, by coincidence the one I referenced (Jose Torres) was downstairs in my office drawer (which has some golden oldies scattered around) as I got in down months ago to read its Archie Moore interview. I was further surprised to see George rated #1 with both the WBC and WBA after that fight and ahead of Ali (only 2 months after FOTC).

 

Thanks.

I know mate - I picked up on that too and raised an involuntarily eyebrow, I'm sure. One of the articles I posted makes mention of this, in particular reference to WBA - the piece entitled "Too much and too poor", Dick Cullum.

Overall, I think the press knew that, in Foreman, they had a potentially impactful heir apparent, but the caution in the articles (in these, to an extent, and in others I passed an eye over) suggests they weren't prepared to go all-in on Foreman, at that point.

Then again, he'd only been a pro for just short of two years by then. So, again, understandably mixed expectations from the Olympic SHW Champion, in 1971.

 

Yes, definitely. But just not quite ready yet, even in 1973 when very few tipped him. Similar with Ali vs Liston. Yes, hardly anyone tipped him to beat Sonny, but a fair few of the Ring staff (like Dan Daniel; Nat Loubet) just felt he needed another year before being ready, so both were tipped for the big crown "some day but not yet".

 

Good bit of knowledge there mate thanks for posting.

 

I'm not sure if it was just an era-thing that led to this kind of conservative forecasting in the press, over that period. When pouring over sports news articles written in the 60s and 70s, they do tend to feel more restrained; though, intelligently and objectively put together (So far, that is).

I haven't really looked at it from this particular angle, but I wonder if Joe Louis faced as much if any resistance from the press pundits and his peers, due to his meteoric rise in 1935.

That said, Baer would have been the initial target, followed by Braddock, in this case (Not a Liston or a Frazier). From what I recall, Baer was not considered much of an obstacle to Louis and his lifting the title. I guess Braddock would have been seen even less of one. This, despite the defeat to Schmeling in '36.

Although, I think it might have been Tunney who considered Louis as having been corrupted by fame and fortune, and over the hill by the age of 22

 

Actually when you take it all into account, 70s Foreman is so much closer to that title then DW.

 

Look I can’t stand watching DW but weak chin is a stretch and his dog fights with Fury solidify that for me.

 

He may have chicken legs, but I wouldn't say he has a weak chin. His 3rd fight with Fury made me grudgingly give him his due by answering a lot of questions I had about him. Much like Frazier in Manilla and Leonard in Montreal, that loss enhanced his legacy by answering questions that the boxing world was asking.

 

I think that Fury doesn't hit that hard and that Wilder's chin is sub par. Young George beats him up and knocks Deontay TFO early with little trouble. Big George KO3 Wilder.

 

Prime Foreman - meaning the Foreman whose modus operandi was to walk the target down then wreck it - might make this look easier than you'd expect. Wilder shuts down when backed up. George would deny him that all essential space, and then he'd show the gulf in power between Fury and himself.

 

Foreman would ko Wilder with in 2-3 rds.
Wilder can't fight backing up, doesn't know how to use lateral movement. ( Fury, who doesn't fight with in a mile of the physicality of prime Foreman showed the world these flaws in 3 different fights, each easier than the one before)
Fury's tactics of smothering and pushing Wilder back would seem like a good message compared to what Foreman would do to him.
Wilders legs were completely gone with in 5 rds against Fury , again just 5 rds!
Now here comes Foreman, probably the most physical heavyweight in history who pushed and pulled much better fighter in Norton and Frazier to crushing defeats, plus , Foreman's chin was world class. Just in case one of Wilders telegraphed right hands did get through.
Wilders only chance against Foreman is to feign injury when Foreman push/ pulls him , hope to get a DQ. ( Which could happen if Foreman got a good push on him, his skinny ass could fly out the ring)
But other than that his chances are slim and none. And slim left the room......