Deontay Wilder's 'Athleticism'.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by OpinionOfACasual, Dec 3, 2018.



  1. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yup! It's all ULTRA INSTINCT!

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    In all seriousness, the more moves a boxer has made automatic / instinctive (being able to perform those moves without having to think), the faster their reflexes are going to be. And the more advanced their boxing skills are going to be overall. Meaning, they'll have more OVERALL 'layers' to their offensive and defensive game.

    If you had two boxers, one boxer who has totally mastered the fundamentals and is able to perform the fundamental moves of boxing instinctively without having to think, facing an opponent who hasn't fully mastered the fundamentals and has to think before performing the fundamental moves of boxing. The boxer who is instinctively able to perform the fundamental moves is going to have the huge upper hand since his skills are far more refined, honed and advanced.

    Likewise, if you had two boxers, both have mastered the fundamental moves, but boxer A has also mastered the intermediate skills of boxing to the point where the fundamentals and the intermediate skills are totally instinctive to him. And he only needs to actively think about the more advanced skills before performing them (because he hasn't fully mastered advanced level skills and they aren't fully instinctive yet). Whilst boxer B has only mastered the basics and not the intermediate or the advanced skills. Boxer A will have the HUGE advantage because he has less to think about during their fight (only the advanced skills of boxing) whilst boxer B has more to think about (intermediate skills and advanced skills).

    In short, the less a fighter has to think about consciously during a fight, the more advanced his skills are and more effective he will be at utilizing those skills.
     
  2. tinman

    tinman VIP Member Full Member

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    Uhhhh... Manny Pacquiao. Probably the most explosive Featherweight in boxing history was an avid runner and roadwork guy. Seemed to work for him. He had stamina for days.
     
  3. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Wilder has long thin legs with narrow hips. Thus a high center of gravity. Equals poor balance and coordination. Even if he train on a balance ball for all of his life he would still not be able to duplicate the movement from a boxer like Fury.

    Also punching power is not only about speed*mass. Even at similar height and weight Foreman hit alot harder than Ali despite the fact that Ali was more explosive and athletic . Foreman had a more solid, better rigged body transmitting the force during impact.
     
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  4. tinman

    tinman VIP Member Full Member

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    Wilder has a 36 inch waist. So it would be hard to imagine that his hips are particularly narrow.
     
  5. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    It's the combination of all above. Wilders center of gravity is too high for him to get coordinated enough to throw balanced combinations. Compare his body to Fury or AJ and the legs is the main difference. With legs as big as those two he would've been alot heavier down low and overall but also better coordinated.
     
  6. tinman

    tinman VIP Member Full Member

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    It's possible if he had a stable base and bigger legs he would have better balance.

    But a big factor is him being 6'7" and having a high center of gravity.
     
  7. Antigoon

    Antigoon Active Member Full Member

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    I have to ask..is that something that has been researched and validated? I understand the reference to physics, but I'm not at all convinced a hip to shoulders ratio would have much of an impact.
    I admit it's probably a nonsensical comparison, but if I branch out a bit and think of the animal kingdom,some of the animals with the skinniest legs display some insane balance and agility compared to their more muscular counterparts. As far as I'm aware, when it comes to physics we all play by the same rules.
    And to continue the comparison with Jones, he didn't have tree trunk legs either and had a pretty broad and muscular build up top
     
  8. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    No, that was me, and I have no confusion over what I consider the term to mean. I simply wanted to see if anyone arguing for Wilder's "athleticism" could actually come up with an even half-way convincing argument.

    You're a strength and conditioning coach. Good for you. It doesn't mean you have the first clue what you're talking about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
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  9. alangjk

    alangjk Active Member Full Member

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    The best pure athlete I've seen since Billy Gunn retired.
     
  10. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    Well you clearly don't.

    Are marathon runners not athletes? If not, then what the hell are they?

    Any definition of athleticism as "speed and power" is a ridiculously reductive one.
     
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  11. bandeedo

    bandeedo VIP Member Full Member

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    ive been repeatedly telling him he has no idea what he is talking about, im just waiting to see if he ever realizes it, or keeps up the charade indefinitely. the guy repeats a whole lot of information that he has no idea how to apply.
     
  12. Power_tek

    Power_tek Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’ve allways thought athleticism Is a natural gift the body’s ability to operate at its maximum, and the only way it can be gaged is time how long it can operate at its maximum?
    And how much fuel it needs to operate at its capacity? There’s probably some maths to be done here.
    But basically isn’t it just a gage of someone’s body’s maximum aerobic/anerobic potential and how long it can be sustained????
     
  13. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, he's a good athlete to fight 12 rounds and generate the power that he does.

    I keep thinking about Earnie Shavers when I think of Deontey; totally different build, but some similar strengths and weaknesses. Earnie has admitted in recent times that it was anxiety that drained his stamina in the ring, and that made him so sloppy when he went for the kill. When Wilder gets riled up, everything seems to go out the window and he just starts winging and telegraphing. I'm sure he's been taught how to throw straight punches before, but doesn't do so in the heat of battle. I tend to think that guys who throw windmills are desperate, lacking the confidence that they can stay close enough to land without getting hurt, and just hoping to get lucky rather than applying the focus, timing, and confidence needed o throw straight, hard shots while avoiding return fire. I think Deontey needs to work on his head, not his "athleticism".
     
  14. OpinionOfACasual

    OpinionOfACasual Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Watch Wilder and Fury/Usyk fight......

    Pretty clear that Wilder isn't as 'Athletic' as some suggest.



    Fury is taller and heavier yet far more athletic.
    Usyk is shorter and lighter yet far more athletic.
     
  15. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    So far every argument in favour of Wilder's supposed 'athleticism' has focused on his speed and power, at the exclusion of everything else. It's a weird obsession Americans have that I assume stems from notions of NFL players being the gold standard of athleticism, when in fact they're no more than specialists in a quite limited sport that has very little parallels to boxing in the first place.

    Wilder has certain world-class athletic traits, I won't deny that, but he's a pretty terrible all-round athlete when compared to someone like Loma or Usyk. He'd suck in way more sports than he'd do well in because his balance and coordination are so jacked up and he can't think on his feet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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