Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, Jan 17, 2022.
The point is he's always dangerous. From round 1-12
Against people with glass jaws and no punching power of their own perhaps.
The ability to be out boxed by a faded gatekeeper/fringe contender and come back from behind to KO an opponent isn't what I would define as a H2H monster.
David Tua a guy known to be out boxed by mediocre boxers only to come from behind and KO his opponent is also a head to head monster I guess, despite drawing with Rahman and being out boxed by Bryd.
How about Carl Thompson another fighter known to struggle in fights only for his power to bail him out like vs Haye, Rothmann and Dunstan. I guess Thompson was a H2H monster too.
Boxers who are underrated H2H usually lack a great resume but dominate the meager opposition they did fight. Ibeabuchi and Vitali for example. They don't get out boxed by gate keepers and then have power bail them out.
You're confusing a dangerous puncher with overall ability. If Wilder was a H2H monster who was underrated he'd have dominated his opposition winning convincingly against all but the elite or when he was past prime. He wouldn't be struggling with guys not even in the top 10 while in his prime.
Think you and many others overrate Anthony Joshua's power and physical strength. He's not gonna bully Wilder physically the same way he didn't to Usyk. He likes fighting from the mid range.
Like you said Joshua will lose concentration and get caught by a Wilder right hand and then he will panic.
If it was a few years ago Wilder knocks him out my only doubt now is that Wilder isn't the same fighter anymore after 2 bad beatings from Fury.
Tua is way too slow and short and I agree Tua h2h is very overrated. Wilder is explosive and has a long reach and great stamina.
What's to stop them from knocking Wilder out first? The big hitters like Lewis, Tyson, etc could potentially take him out early. And plenty of the top heavies of his own era outweigh him including Joyce, Makhmudov, Hrgovic, etc, etc
like josh lost to a fat **** with the fast handed combos
Agreed most heavyweights defense are overrated
He probably knocks shavers out. Liston is an interesting one.
aye you should get in touch with them
new age promotion
if carslberg pushed shyte they would done it years ago
Ring ratings of Vitali's opposition wins after the Lewis fight.
Johnson (34-1-1) #8, Sanders (39-2) #3, Williams (32-3) none, Peter (30-1) #2, Gomez (44-1) #9, Arreola (27-0) #6, K.Johnson (22-0-1) none, Sosnowski (45-2-1) none, Briggs (51-5-1) obviously none, Solis (17-0) #10, Adamek (44-1) #3, Chisora (15-2) none, Charr (21-0) none.
Now compare that to Wilder's opposition titledefences for the WBC belt.
Stiverne (24-1-1) #2, Molina (23-2) obviously none, Duhaupas (32-2) none, Szpilka (20-1) none, Arreola (36-4-1) obviously none (not even the WBC themselves ranked him top 15), Washington (18-0-1) obviously none, Stiverne II (25-2-1) obviously none (2 years inactive), Ortiz (28-0) #5, Fury (27-0) #2 DRAW, Breazeale (20-1) none, Ortiz II (31-1) #5.
Vitali fought 13 opponents, 7 were top10 rated, 3 were top #3 rated.
Wilder fought 11 opponents, 4 were top 10 rated (one draw and one rematch) 2 were top #3 rated.
From the rest of the opponents 4 weren't even remotely close to being top 10 Ring.
And then there's Vitali's pre Lennox career, which featured a couple of pretty decent names too.
You're all over the board.
First, you seem to have left off Fury in their rematch, which was a Wilder title defense. And Fury was rated #1.
Wilder has engaged in 13 WBC title fights. Six of the 13 came against Ring rated fighters ... ALL top five. One being the Ring champ. The other seven WBC title defenses were against boxers who were all rated by the WBC.
Stiverne was ranked in the Ring top five when Wilder won the title from him in 2015. Ortiz in 2018 was rated in the top five by Ring, Fury was rated in the top five in 2018 by Ring, Ortiz was rated in the top five in 2019 by Ring. Fury was rated in the top five (#1) when Wilder fought him in 2020. And Fury was the Ring Champion when Wilder challenged him in 2021.
Second, Vitali didn't defend his title against Kirk Johnson, who you included. (Apparently, just to pad your numbers.)
Third, Vitali engaged in 13 WBC title fights. Four of the 13 came against top five Ring rated fighters, one of them against the Ring champ. The other nine WBC title fights were all against WBC contenders.
Vitali lost to Lewis in 2003, who was the champion. Corrie Sanders was rated in the top 5 by Ring in 2004. Sam Peter was rated in the top 5 by Ring in 2008. Former Light Heavyweight and former cruiserweight Tomasz Adamek was rated in the top five by Ring in 2011.
Both Vitali and Wilder beat Chris Arreola in a defense.
Pretty much a wash.
And Wilder's career isn't over yet. Vitali's is.
Vitali beat 5 guys you could reasonably argue were top 10 heavyweight while Wilder beat 2 so I would give him the edge
its better with the glasses off