Describe monzon as a fighter

Yeah, boxing just can't compare to the WWF.

 

Monzon was one of the greatest at tying up his opponent's arms in the clinches and punching off the breaks. John Ruiz tries to immitate Monzon with very little success which makes his fights boring. Is it just me or does Ruiz look for his opponent to foul him in order to be saved by the ref? Ruiz strikes me as the guy who seems content at winning by disqualification and not by his own performance in a fight.

 

The thing that always impressed me about "King Carlos" were his different levels of activity. I'm always reminded of a stick-shift car. He could be quietly going about his business in that methodical way and then suddenly shift into a higher gear and the fight's suddenly over.

Extremely intelligent fighter; measured his comp, and knew the second they were hurt...

One bad boy!

 

I see it the same way as you do. Monzon never had great speed, or great power. He was a grinder with great durability and stamina who knew when to up the ante, or slow things down. Monzon had great in the ring tempo skills, a bit like the 70's version of Ali did. He is like a marathon runner who stays with the pack for many rounds, then suddenly decides to separate himself from the herd.

I'm not as high on Monzon as other are. Yes, he was an ATG at middle weight, but I think many of his best wins were vs smaller / past their prime welters.

 

He threw his wife off a balcony.

 

Great read Red Cobra..... it seemed that he was quite a big puncher earlier in his career, but lesser so post 75... though maybe quality of opposition factors in. But for instance the Benuvito KO (first one, 1970?) was one punch and quite brutal as i remember. Maybe his hands became a bigger factor later?

By the way, can you comment on him never being in gym wars and only "working on certain things"? He seems like the fighter who wouldn't say no to an aggressive opponent, in a controlled way like he always did.

 

Yeah but you can say the same about Hagler or Hopkins. There are some exceptions, like Greb, Walker and Fitzsimmons.

 

As wild as he was, he had a high boxing IQ and maximized his skills. He's definately a Top 3 Middleweight ATG.

 

In an interview in the seventies, Monzon said that "American fighters beat each other so much in sparring, that soon they have nothing left', and that he never did that, and instead, he 'worked on certain things", and I remember reading about how he had problems with his hands, and that they were somewhat arthritic. All I know is that right hand he leveled Benvenuti with in the 12th round in 1970 was a big deal, and attracted the attention in a big way of me and my buddies back then who avidly followed boxing. That right hand was very impressive and he really knocked Nino's block off with it. Monzon's power again surfaced in the 1971 rematch with Nino, which some think was stopped too soon after Carlos had him down a couple of times. My dad, watching the fight with me (it was on Wide World of Sports- ah, the good ol' days) put it rather well, said that they did well in stopping it, as Monzon was going to kill Nino if they didn't. Gradually, Monzon did change his style somewhat, with the arthritis contributing to this somewhat, he had to adapt his style a bit in pulling his punches some and becoming even more methodical in wearing guys down more and going for decisions and long distance wins. Nobody could fight the 15 rounders as well as Monzon. He knew when to coast and wait for the right time to switch it back on again in those championship rounds of 13-thru 15. Also, in 1973 his wife shot him a couple of times in the right arm and shoulder during one of their "domestic altercations" and they could only get one of the bullets out. This gave Jose Napoles some confidence, knowing that Monzon wasn't punching like he used to. Really, Monzon was so great a fighter that he had various resources to call upon to beat whoever he fought, as he proved against Briscoe and Valdez, and maybe, without the handicap of having a bullet lodged in him, he might have stopped Valdez instead of having to decision him, as great a fighter as Valdez was.

 

The finest 160 man in history bar none. No way hagler,hearns,robinson,hopkins or any other beats this guy over 15
The ultimate effective all round winner at 160.
The duran of the middles,woefully underrepresented and underrated.
Only prime jones would present a challenge purely due to style but over 15, and brutally so,jones may be found out...

 

While I respect your opinion, I disagree on the bolded part. A faded Emile Griffith almost beat Monzon in their second fight, which had Monzon pulling away in the championship rounds. The notion of whether these guys can beat Monzon or not I don't know, but it's a little unfair to say that there's no way these guys can beat Monzon.

 

I also thought Griffith won their second fight.

Monzon fought a French guy who was bigger than him, Gratien Tonna. Also Tony Licata and a few others. His sharpshooting usually carried the day.

 

One of the top 3 middleweights of all time. Did not do anything fancy nor was he particulary exciting. He had a nice stiff jab and a nice right cross. But to me what made Monzon so great were two things. He fought with so much poise and was very relaxed, so he never expended energy that he didn't have to. The other thing that made Monzon great was he had great anticipation and timing. He knew exactly when he had to punch. He was very effective at thrawting in incoming fighters advances with counterpunching and combimation punching. He seemed to pick the right spots to fight and when he did more often than not he got the best of things.

 

IMO he had what Sanchez had... Fantastic stamina, great durability and unbelievable ring intelligence. This meant he could do very little early on, paw a bit, but assert his rhythm, always knowing, always watching, always calculating. So he worked out his opponents as the fight went on.

He was essentially a counter pucnher and his languid style almost forced the other guy to lead. IMO this is why he would beat Hagler who was always more intense and would look to stamp his authority on the fight, playing right into Monzon's hands.

In the last 20 years the focus on speed has increased in all sports. I think this is why many underrate him. His timing (the best way for a fighter to eliminate a speedsters' advantage) was as good as you'll ever see.

Rodrigo Valdez is a better MW than anyone that Hagler and Hopkins beat and Monzon did it twice when he was past his best.

 

Most have summed him up already. Tough as nails, persistent at times with that jab always doing the measuring with the jab before the right was dropped through the pipe and found the target with effect. That is a basic fundamental that this great fighter stuck to and it paid dividends for him. At times offense looked like it was serving him as a good defense, like Pea said, he could keep pressure on you at HIS range, and kept your offense ineffective. Had stamina to boot, he could rip guys with strong, sweeping type uppercut/hooks as they came in to keep them honest. But yes, his best game was his outside one, he BOXED there, but like i afforementioned, if he hurt a guy, he would keep that same strategy of distance and range, but be persistent going forward with it to try for a finish. Strong as an ox.