Devin Miles Haney vs. Ryan García Quesada & Arnold Barboza, Jr. vs. Seán McComb RBR

Once again you are full of Floyd crap.

“Keith Kizer, Nevada Athletic Commission executive director, said both camps became aware Friday morning that Mayweather would not make the agreed-upon weight, a notification which struck many as curious.”

The penalty was already in the contract. There was no come to an agreement.

 

Garcia was trolling Haney. Kind of insulting to be honest. To show up to the weigh in and drink a beer. Among other things.

Have to admit though, I can admire a quality troll job. Garcia put on a trolling masterclass.

 

That does not alter the fact the two situations are indeed the same.
Any difference is in degree rather than kind.

If Bob gives his wife a slap on average once a month, and Bill gives his Missus the same kind of slap once a week, both Bill and Bob are wife-beaters.

You can argue about which situation is more egregious, but both men are the same thing...wife-beaters.

Both Floyd and Ryan did they same thing, and both opponents agreed to carry on.

One of the opponents had longer than the other to make the decision, but that hardly mattered.

Both were very likely to continue with the fight anyway.

While true, that is not germane to the issue of whether or not both men, in your words...cheated.



In fact, if anything, the fact that Floyd was dragging Marquez up so far from his usual weight that Marquez didn't need to worry about making weight, makes Floyd's missing weight look even worse.

JMM spent his first dozen years as a pro at feather weight (126).

Before he faced Floyd, of his fifty or so fights, only two were at 130, and only one at 135. The man was in his third weight division in two years, He had boxed at feather weight from he was twenty till he was thirty five.

And Floyd wanted him to move up again at age thirty six, and fight at 140.

And JMM, for the big purse, agreed.

And then, the bigger man (who had been a 154 lb champion) forced the fight at two pounds above even the 140..



As I explained above, both Floyd and Ryan did the same thing.

As to which was more egregious, IMO, given the circumstance, Floyd's missing weight was worse.

 

Here's how I scored it live. I don't claim this to be a perfect score or anything, but this is how I saw it.

Ryan Devin
10 9
9 10
9 10
9 10
9 10
10 9
9-7 (additional points due to level of dominance)
9 10 (close)
9 10 (close)
10-7 (additional points due to level of dominance)
10-8
10-9

113 - 109 Ryan

I thought Round 7 was so one-sided that even though there was only 1 official knockdown, and despite the point deduction (which I had no problem with btw) I thought Ryan deserved an extra point (besides just winning the round + the knockdown point) especially considering there were two additional possible knockdowns that were not ruled as such. I could see why both of those were ruled not to be knockdowns, as yes a punch landed each time, but Devin did manage to successful clinch and hang on before eventually falling. They definitely could have been ruled a knockdown, but I see those as very borderline and was OK with then not being ruled as such.

Similarly with Round 10, which was very one-sided and once again Devin was clinching and hanging on several times in addition to a knockdown. While you could certainly argue that 10-7 is generous to Ryan, I justify it by how dominate the round was and the fact that I gave the two rounds in between (8 and 9) to Devin which were both close.

I did not consider Round 11 to be as one-sided as either Round 7 or 10, so I didn't think he deserved a (second) additional point there. I'm going from memory here from watching it live. I haven't reviewed the match yet, and if I have to correct any of this I sure will.

I did think Ryan clearly won round 6 and round 12. Relatively close rounds compared to some of the other rounds, but I still preferred the work from Ryan. And while some might be put off by Ryan's showboating towards the end of the 12th, he did better work than Devin throughout the round and even towards the end while showboating did land some jabs on Haney.

I thought there was a chance Haney would have come out in the 12th just jabbing Ryan's head off, but I don't think he had the energy to do that. Ryan took advance.

This fight really exceeded my expectations. It was a fantastic fight and despite missing weight, Ryan really impressed. And what made it so epic is was that after the first round, it seemed that Haney was in full control from rounds 2-5, and even when Ryan won round 6, there didn't seem to be any inidcation that he was about to take over the fight. Then Round 7 happened, one of the craziest rounds in a long time.

I have a lot more to say about this but I'll leave it at that for now.

 

You just are a Floyd hater so no point discussing this with you.

 

I get where you're coming from, but IMHO it depends how you're using language.

If you define cheating as "unsportsmanlike behaviour to gain advantage", which I think colloquially is how most would (even if they don't articulate it) then they both did, in my eyes.

If you define cheating as breaking the rules to gain advantage then only Garcia did...

IMHO the latter definition becomes farcical when the advantage gained is less than the advantage that can be gained by extreme contortion of the rules, which IMHO is the case here with such extreme cutting to make weight approx 25lbs below fighting weight.

In most walks of life, finding ways to get around the rules by tricking the testing methods is something that becomes a major scandal once exposed - something like the VW emissions scandal is an example of this.

However you want to dress it up, Haney's not an innocent athlete competing fairly within the spirit of the rules, and that makes it hard to feel sorry for him that Garcia missed weight - even if you do believe Garcia gained more advantage over Haney than Haney does over most of his opponents (I think that's a massive stretch, but to each their own).

 

The same dumbo homeboys who shrugged their shoulders at Mayweather doing this to Marquez are now RIGHTEOUS about Garcia pounding out Haney like a nail

both Mayweather and Garcia paid big money to the opponent for missing wait …. Both Marquez and Haney excepted the money and the show went on. They both got embarrassed .

it’s a economic decision. Take your purse + the penalty …or take nothing and tell the cheat to kick rocks

haney needs to go back to feasting on featherweights

 

I didn't see that. I thought Haney was enough boxer to negate Garcia's speed. Make Garcia sheepish to throw punches from hitting air.

I overrated Haney and underrated Garcia.

 

Yeah Linares was not really in his prime vs Haney still had a bit of pop but that fight imo gave me confidence that Garcia could have some moments here. Garcia is fresher, bigger and a bit more explosive than that version of Linares. I half expected him to have a meltdown here but I still thought he was going to have some moments. I genuinely think he was under the influence a month or two ago as well.

I don't know how people believed Haney was in Mayweather's league, when Mayweather boxed fighters Linares, Kambosis level at LW he comprehensively and throughly shut them out if not stopped them. Haney's been dropping rounds and getting rocked vs fighters of this level.

 

WTF, Olu ???

I don't know which part is more shocking.

But I'll give its a try.

1. In light of our previous very civil conversations on a number of topics, your tone is disappointing.
2. I am certainly not a Floyd hater. I rank him at his prime as the best of his of his era at any weight.
3. For an erudite poster such as yourself to completely ignore any of the points made, is very surprising.


From just a few hours ago:
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...liked-chick-fil-a.719669/page-3#post-22832094

 

I don't use that definition, so therein probably lies our difference on the matter.

I use the word cheating (in sports) to mean : engaged in a breaching a rule of the sport.

Haney did not cheat in any way , shape or form.

Garcia, it could be argued, came in over the limit because he could not make the weight.
Had Haney declined the fight, Garcia would have been in breach of contract which is not the same as cheating. Presumably, he would have paid whatever penalty that was stipulated in the contract, as remedy to Haney.

However, Haney agreed to fight even with Garcia's extra weight.

Thus again, no cheating.

 

Probably, yes.

I think in a sporting sense that's the better definition, but to each their own!

I would call that rulebreaking or fouling (depending on context) and either cynical or unprofessional (again depending on context).

I would also note that this definition makes mention of whether that breach of the rules conferred an advantage - the idea of cheating without gaining advantage seems an odd definition, to me.

But then add that back in, and then we look whether Ryan gained an advantage from it... And then it depends how you're looking at it: compared to himself with the extra cut -vs- how much over the weight category he was in the ring compared to Haney on the night.


Definitely an interesting discussion to be had around this occurrence, given the context surrounding it.

 

I don't even know where to start with this fight.

- Ryans conditioning was horrendous. After he hurt Haney he had to take a round and a half off. Ryan confirmed this in the post fight interview.

- Ref way too involved once Devin got hurt. How was Haney not warned for holding at a minimum?

- Fighters need to be aware of Ryan turtling up and target his body/ribcage.

- Ryan came to destroy Haney and clearly didn't respect the danger he presented based on their amateur fights.

Respect to Ryan for making big fights. He took no damage let's see him back in the ring soon.

 

Honestly...

It's just the norm, unfortunately.

Very few refs do anything about it - look how long it took for the Okoliepus to get pulled up for it, or how long Fury's been doing it and still hasn't been.

Then look at other fouls like, for example, rabbit punching and low blows - way more instances of both go unpunished than get acknowledged.

Like it or not, permissiveness is generally how it goes.