Devin Miles Haney vs. Vasyl Anatoliyovych Lomachenko & Junto Nakatani vs. Andrew Moloney RBR.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, May 20, 2023.


  1. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,226
    131,428
    Jul 21, 2009
    Yeah it happens a lot to them over there too. It does to all foreigners but EE and Central Asian fighters get it particularly bad over there. There's a clear and undeniable pattern but so many are OK with it. I'm not OK with foreigners getting robbed in the UK and if it kept happening again and again and again to certain types of ones I would not pretend like it wasn't happening and keep my mouth shut about it
     
    CST80 likes this.
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    245,092
    240,452
    Nov 23, 2013
    Alright.... I decided to give this another watch, and rescore, only two rounds shifted, the 6th and the 8th.

    Round 1 Lomachenko 10-9

    Pretty clear Loma round, almost everything Haney threw he fell short with, nothing connected clean, including his jabs. Lomachenko however, while he landed nothing truly demonstrative, the jabs and combinations that he got off with, landed clean enough for him to take the round.

    Round 2 Lomachenko 10-9

    Again, much of what Haney is throwing, he's falling short with, the vast majority of the body shots, aside from two of them, Loma bounced just out of range for, while almost all of the left hooks, jas and rights were either caught on the forearm, blocked or parried by Loma. Whereas Loma's handful of hard clean lefts to the head and jab landed clean.

    Round 3 Lomachenko 10-9

    Very clear Loma round, he applied relentless pressure throughout, always just out of range for the sweeping hooks to the body that Haney missed with constantly, Haney again landing very few jabs or rights clean, most blocked and parried. Lomachenko landed several body shots far cleaner, and his straight hard lefts up top easily won him the round.

    Round 4 Haney 10-9, close

    Far closer than people seem to realize, while Haney edged it with body shots and jabs, more clean got through than in any other round, Loma was right with him almost every step of the way, evading most of what Haney was throwing and Loma managed to land a very heavy power jab, a few lefts and a few counters up top, when Haney got over aggressive. Still, much of what Haney is attempting to land, simply isn't finding its mark.

    Round 5 Lomachenko 10-9, close

    Haney starts the round off pretty well, landing a hook upstairs and a few body shots. Still Loma doing an effective job negating much of what is coming his way, a lot more grappling and holding from Haney. Then Loma comes roaring back, nailing him with several power jabs and combinations up top, as well as sneaky combos to the body. Neither man landed much clean in the last minute.

    Round 6 Haney 10-9, close

    3 effective body shots early from Haney, Loma fires back with a heavy straight left up top, they tie up, Haney attempts to land a few more to the body, Loma too evasive, Loma lands a series of compact one twos up the middle, prompting Haney again to hold, then attempts a few rabbit punches while it hold. Two good jabs from Haney, Loma then flies his head with a vicious left, followed by a combo. Haney with a few more jabs, then a few missed shots from both. Very close round.

    Round 7 Lomachenko 10-9

    Pretty clear Loma round, with almost everything Haney threw either being blocked, a rabbit punch, to the shoulders or to the back. Aside from a counter hook up top, from Haney, it was all Loma. Who landed the far heavier blows, with sharp one twos to the head of Haney and a few very hard eye catching straight lefts. Haney gets a few body shots in late.

    Round 8 Lomachenko 10-9

    Neither man all that effective in the 8th, both negated the others work pretty consistently, Haney landed a handful of body shots, but most of them fell short, whereas Loma's handful of head shots, one a nasty power jab, were the far more eye catching. Also Loma's jabs and counter right hooks found their mark far more than Haney's.

    Round 9 Lomachenko 10-9

    Another largely ineffective round for Haney, a few weak glancing body shots got through, Loma, while low output, still managed to land the cleaner shots to the head, a few hard jabs, counter hooks early, with a few lefts, a flurry and one twos later. Haney's shots are mostly bouncing off of shoulders or being blocked.

    Round 10 Lomachenko 10-9

    All things considered, a fairly quiet round, with neither man doing a hell of a lot throughout the vast majority of it, but Loma managed to stun him with a nasty one two, and then teed off for a spell, then darting in with quick straight lefts, which was more than enough to win him the round.

    Round 11 Lomachenko 10-9

    Dominant 11th, Haney barely landed a thing, Loma had him hurt adn on jelly legs after he landed some savage lunging right hooks and several combinations, most one sided round of the fight.

    Round 12 Haney 10-9, close

    All in all, a fairly close round, while Loma didn't press enough early, when he did, he managed to land several sneaky lefts up top, firing back a shot every time Haney landed to the body, but Haney was just a little bit more active, and accurate, so that edged the round in his direction, but only barely.

    117-111 Lomachenko

    116-112, 115-113 are fine and while a bit of a stretch, 114-114 is acceptable.

    1, 2, 3, 7, 10, 11 were all pretty easy to score rounds, and Loma won them all fairly handily. The rest are close and could go either way.

    But in no possible way can you find 6 rounds to give to Haney, it's simply unfeasible. So if you did, you're disgustingly biased and unreasonable. That also means that anything wider than 6 rounds is a robbery. Of course people can argue, but it's close, it could go either way, therefore... not a robbery. But when finding 7 rounds to give to the fighter who won, is an impossibility, it doesn't matter how close it is. That still very much qualifies as a gift decision and an indication of corruption. Just because a match is close, that doesn't immediately invalidate talk of a robbery. The term, close but clear exists for a reason. So if 6 rounds are clearly won by one fighter, while 5 of the other 6 are razor close, for someone to find not only 7, but 8 to give to the guy who did not win 6, that qualifies as a blatant and egregious robbery.
     
    pacas, JacK Rauber and Serge like this.
  3. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

    38,316
    7,890
    Sep 2, 2011
    My scorecard

    Loma - Haney
    1. 10 9 *
    2. 9 10 *
    3. 10 9 *
    4. 9 10
    5. 9 10
    6. 9 10
    7. 10 9
    8. 10 9
    9. 10 9
    10. 10 9
    11. 10 9
    12. 10 10
    * I wasn't too sure, kind of went with my gut. I think on one of the rounds, maybe 3rd my feed got interrupted so I missed maybe 30-40 seconds. 12th I really couldn't make my mind up at all, so just scored it a draw.
     
    JacK Rauber, Serge and CST80 like this.
  4. JacK Rauber

    JacK Rauber Unbourboned by what has been Full Member

    11,840
    14,545
    Oct 20, 2013
    I don't have the patience you have to go back over the fight meticulously but the one round I would probably disagree with you on off the top of my head was 2. Not that Haney won it decisively. I just remember thinking it's now 1-1 after 2. I think Loma definitely won but I can see where this is a closer fight than some think. Regardless, I just don't see how this fight could have gone to Haney.
     
    CST80 likes this.
  5. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,226
    131,428
    Jul 21, 2009
    A lot of Haney's shots people are counting were missed or were blocked or only half landed due to Loma's great defensive skills. Even against Teofimo a lot of the shots people thought landed or landed clean didn't.

    Also why are people ignoring Loma's defence? He had Haney swinging and missing widely. Had him doing that all night against someone who was supposed to not only be on his level in terms of skill but actually a lot better according to his imbecilic DKSAB or comically biased fans.

    Loma's a 10 for skills

    Haney is probably a 6

    But to be fair he's a 10 for weight bulling and octopus grabbing

    His amazing jab completely neutralized and his supposedly super slick defensive skills consisted of the genius and sometimes illegal tactic of ducking his head forward or grabbing onto Loma like a lonely giant octopus
     
    Romfordpele and CST80 like this.
  6. GGGunbeatable

    GGGunbeatable Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,115
    8,574
    Feb 14, 2014
    This content is protected
     
    pacas and CST80 like this.
  7. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    245,092
    240,452
    Nov 23, 2013
    Exactly, it's a case where Loma and even GGG's skillsets are so subtle, that much of what they do is imperceptible and simply lost on most fans, even many who consider themselves hardcores. So if you're not watching with laser sharp focused hawk eyes, you may end up missing it. That couldn't be more apparent with how people are reacting to the first two rounds, where they allowed themselves to be deceived into thinking Haney's body attack and pressure was far more effective than it actually was, when in reality, he was missing with almost everything he threw. Same goes for the Teofimo Lopez match, where beyond a shadow of a doubt Lomachenko won the 2nd and the 6th rounds, yet pretty much no one gave them to him but me.
     
    pacas, kiwi_boxer and Serge like this.
  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,226
    131,428
    Jul 21, 2009
    Yes, even some of the less subtle defensive skills of Loma seem to escape the attention of many. Hence why people question who's better defensively out of him and Usyk. Obviously I love Usyk and his skills are superb but Loma is in his own league to everyone else in the sport right now in that regard and in terms of skills he's as good as anyone who ever stepped foot in a ring.

    I want to find that video Loma posted on his IG of the Teofimo fight where it showed how much of Teofimo's work was missing or being blocked but I can't find it
     
    pacas and CST80 like this.
  9. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,226
    131,428
    Jul 21, 2009
    I think me saying Loma is a 1o out of 10 for skills and Haney only a 6 is a bit harsh

    It doesn't feel right

    But it wouldn't feel right if I said Loma was a 10 and Haney is a 7, 8 or 9 either because the gap between them is so vast

    Maybe Loma is a 12 and Haney is a 7 is a more accurate assessment
     
    CST80 likes this.
  10. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

    36,348
    11,384
    Jan 6, 2007
    These numerical assessments definitely need a bit more detailed analysis in order to arrive at a true measure of the disparity between these two pugilists.

    Do you have any background in calculus, by any chance ?

    We used to have a poster here, name of ChinaHandJoe who performed these kinds of analyses, but we haven't seen him in years.

    There is no doubt you're on the right track, but I think a 10:6 ratio is a little bit harsh on Devi





    Holy **** !

    I just had to stop typing there.

    I just noticed that Haney shares the first four letters of his Christian name (if he is a Christian) with the Devil. Lucifer. :demon7:

    That's an 80 % identification with the Dark Lord.

    I see now wherein last night's result is rooted.

    I had no idea of the power at some people's disposal.



    I think I better stop now...while I sill can...:eek:
     
    Serge likes this.
  11. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,139
    9,870
    Aug 1, 2012
    I just wanna say that I love boxing, controversy and all. I like that everyone has a different view of a fight and will passionately argue their perspective. You don't get this in other sports, which is what makes boxing unique.
     
    KO KIDD likes this.
  12. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    80,226
    131,428
    Jul 21, 2009

    None at all I'm afraid

    I remember him. Haven't heard his name in a long time though

    :lol: Well spotted. I'm going to start referring to him as Devil Hades from now on lol
     
  13. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

    29,993
    36,791
    Jul 24, 2004
    Haney is a Muslim. Always shouting Allahu Akbar after fights.
     
  14. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

    36,348
    11,384
    Jan 6, 2007
    You're a God-send, Shadow.

    Thank the heavens you're back, I thought maybe something bad had happened to you...that maybe you went too far and fell off the edge of the earth.

    Like I said, I often read your analysis and scoring, especially of fights I myself have not seen.

    Without needing to wade through watching I all, I can then say with near certainty that whoever you deemed to have won, lost, and the dude you declared to have lost, did indeed win the fight.
     
  15. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

    36,348
    11,384
    Jan 6, 2007
    OK.

    I was unaware of his persuasion.

    I think he dodged a .454 calibre bullet las night.



    Do you, by any chance, remember ChinaHandJoe ?