Devise a strategy for David Haye to beat Vitally Klitschko

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Jan 4, 2009.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It would be interesting to see some classic opinions on this.

    Consider not only the strategy to be employed in the ring but also training and preparations.
     
  2. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    well to start with

    his training would be working on making his legs fit by lots of running, sprints weighted squats, lunges etc... with lots of footwork drills involving moving in and out of range and using angles working with fast punches

    sparring would ideally be with wladimir Klitshcko but that wouldnt happen so somebody with an upright style like vitali's (i cant think of any names just now) and another sparring partner who has a big punch and a decent punch and is tall.

    on the night

    david would have to use his footwork to get in and out quickly with fast 1 2s and jabs using angles as much as possible. the most important thing would be keep moving so vitali dosent get the chance t set his feet and throw a big shot. and it would have to be a safty first plan where haye would never go for the KO just be content for a points desicion
     
  3. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    I dont think he can beat him personally.

    Train as normal (he always looks in shape) & try to get inside as much as possible to take away VKs effective outside game, attack the body & head & pray you land one on his chin.

    Thats the best I can do for Haye, I think he`s gonna get ****ed up but never say never in boxing.
     
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that Hayes main weakness is that he relies on his oponents inability to take his power. This time that might not wash.

    The main thing I would do is try to make his punches more compact. If he shortens them enough then not even Klitschko will be able to take them.

    He would of course still have to wory about the punches thrown back at him.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Vitlai faced two cruiserweights that moved up. Both fighters had excellent distinction at cruiserweight. They were Herrbie Hide, and Orlin Norris. They lasted a combined three rounds vs. Vitlai Klitschko.

    I do not expect Haye last long, unless he goes gun shy and completely changes his style. Since Vitlai has never come close to being out boxed or down by a punch, I do not think Haye has the tools to put together a game plan to win, unless Vitlai like many fighters at age 37+ suddenly becomes “ old “ on fight night. Juding by Vitlai’s last performance vs Sam Peter, he is still near pear performance levels.

    While I do think Haye has shown enough to be considered a top ten heavyweight, I wish he would have more tested coming into this match.
     
  6. BOGART

    BOGART Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It would have been nice to see Haye face another heavweight or two before facing Vitali or Wlad. Even with that I think Haye has a very good chance with Vitali. The biggest advantage in Haye's favor is Vitali's age and inactivity. The same problems facing Vitali when going up against Peter will be there with Haye - his age, injuries, and inactivity. A big difference between Peter and Haye is style. Peter was made to order for Vitali, he stands in front of you making it easier for Vitaly to do his thing. Haye has the speed and athleticism to make Vitali work and not let him get comfortable. I know Vitali ran right through Peter and it was an impressive win but I saw some real rust in Vitali. I thought he looked slower, less mobile, and a bit sloppier than he ever has. Even though the win was excellent I saw some real cracks in there its just that Peter was the wrong guy to take advantage of them.

    If Haye can keep Vitali moving and continually beat him to the punch then I think we could see a Pacquiao-DLH scenario unfold. Not nearly the one-sided nature but in the way the gameplans play out. The smaller prime fighter being too quick, mobile, and fresh for the older, inactive, bigger guy. I'd prefer a Wlad-Haye showdown but if we get Vitali-Haye I see it as close to a 50/50 fight. No doubt, the Vitali that fought Lewis would run over Haye like a truck but I don't know if this version can still do it.
     
  7. Ted Stickles

    Ted Stickles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Watch every tape of Camacho after the Rosario fight and run for his life .......he honestly has a minimal chance,would have had a decent chance against china chin Wlad
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I dont necisarily agree that he would have been better fighting Wlad.

    Wlad is at the top of his game.
     
  9. BOGART

    BOGART Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree. Right now the thought is that Haye has a better chance with Wlad than Vital but I'd disagree. Vitali is older and not in his prime while Wlad is on a roll right now. I think Haye is a live dog with Vitali but only has that so called punchers chance with Wlad.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think Haye has made the same calculation rightly or wrongly.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm picking Haye to win based upon the following.

    1 - Klitschko is old. He is also pretty inactive, having not boxed a competitive round since Sanders, and that was a pretty one-sided fight.

    2 - Klitscho has quite on his stool. I was interested to hear Ice John Scully speak about this on the radio not too long ago. He said that this wasn't a question of heart - just a different type of man from a different type of culture. Vitali is a man with horizons further in expansions than the boxing world. He has a life plan which certainly doesn't end with any title.

    3 - Haye is a young, fast, hungry contender. Young, fast, hungry contenders and semi-retired champions who are already looking beyond the sport do not blend well.


    None of which answers the question. So to Haye's plan.


    His big problem as I see it, is footwork. Haye can get tangled up in his own moves. He needs to get smoothed out before he gets in with Vitali or he will get stopped. But he's got some good people working with him and i'll be stunned if they don't deal with exactly that. Moving of punching without confusing himself and quick changes of direction.

    Yes, Haye has to move in the ring, but not exclusively away. Out-speeding an opponent, which he obviosly must do, is based in aggression, not aversion. Haye should look to Calzaghe in terms of strategy if not execution.

    In terms of execution, he needs to pick his spots perfectly. He shouldn't be meeting Vitali's aggression with his own aggression, but rather attacking behind Vitali's aggression. Think Corbett with Sullivan. Of course, Vitali is a smart man so he needs to throw a variety of punches as leads, and this is a very risky business. But there is risk in this fight for Haye, without question, of course there is a good chance he will get sparked.

    The reason the odds don't favour it (in my opinion) is that educated pressure combined with consistantly hard punching - and I disagree with you Janitor, that he needs to shorten up his punches neccesarily, I think he needs to land at every opportunity whatever the weather - can discourage Vitali. Here is a crossroads in this fight. If Vitali can't be discouraged Haye needs to have better endurance for the pace than Klitschko even though he needs to be fighting at a faster pace. Haye needs to make Vitali fight for the centre of the ring in terms of mobility, before trying to take it away (however briefly) with punching. If Klitschko CAN be discouraged then Haye needs to bank rounds, keep the pressure on may look to see out the last few rounds with mobility and arguably counterpunching, though staying aggressive would probably be better.

    It's a tall order, but I think he can pull it of, personally.
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Wow, So Haye need to fight like Calzaghe, fight Vitlai in the center of the ring discourage Vitlai, out counter punch Vitlai, and fight at a faster pace for the distance?

    The trouble is, Haye has never fought like Clazaghe.

    Vitlai has never been discoruaged unless a major injury hit.

    Vitlai is a good coutner puncher. I don't think anyone has out coutered him.

    And Haye has suspect stamina. Haye can not fight at a fast pace for the distance.

    I just can't see all those stars lining up for Haye.

    One question I have is what type of creidt will the winner? If Vitlai wins as expected, then most will say Haye was hype. If Haye wins, most will say Vitlai was old.
     
  13. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    There are rumors that Vitali has issues movement wise. As in, movement in the ring due to a long standing knee issue that hasn't particularly gotten any better with age.

    Why he and his team were so for the Peter fight, they don't get any more immobile then Peter.

    Haye is young, and capable of consistent movement.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No. "Look to Calzaghe for strategy if not execution." I'm very clear that he doesn't have to fight like him.

    No. He needs to "try to take [the centre of the ring] away (however briefly)". He doesn't need to contest it or fight for it, but some exchanges near the centre of the ring will be neccessary in this boxing match IMO.

    No. I think he would turn to counter-punching if Vitali became discouraged but as I noted "staying aggressive would probably be better".

    Yes. Haye doesn't have the smarts to push Vitali whilst resting himself, I don't think, so he has to be prepared to execute a busy gameplan. Finding the limits as to exactly how busy might be key.

    But he has quit on his stool.

    Maybe an old, inactive fighter who hasn't been properly challanged in the ring in some years who has previously quit on his stool can be tested in this department. I don't say he can, because I agree that Vitali has good heart, but I do think he is vulnerable in this regard because of his status. I could be wrong, no doubt about that.

    I don't think so either. But he's never been quite so old when in with someone quite this fast.

    Haye's stamina is bound, bound to improve with a move up to HW. He was huge at cruiser. Weightmaking was bound to hurt him. This isn't wishful thinking. If he's properly trained, as the younger man I'd pick him to have more gas, whatever the issues at Cruiser. I'm not trying to paint a picture of Henry Armstrong here, he only needs a wee bit more.

    As far as I am concerned this is a cracking win for Vitali over a very good much younger challanger. But it can be more, because Haye can probably extend Vit further than Peter (wouldn't be hard). Assuming he wins, the worst thing that could happen to Vit is that he wins by first round KO:lol: Something like KO7 will look pretty good for him, I think.

    If Haye wins, he has beaten a respected former champion, a serious and big man. He's set up a mega-fight with Wlad. Be a big win for him. Though I do expect Haye to win, and I do expect Vit to look very old during the fight.
     
  15. sauhund II

    sauhund II Boxing Addict Full Member

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    LOL @ at this thread and particular Mickey Grain. You MUST be from the UK.............

    Haye did not look impressive , disciplined, well conditioned for 12 or techniclly sound against a washed up never was, far, I mean far removed of even be a decent gate keeper. It was a very sloppy affair and it took him with his supposed "superpower" several CLEAN shots to get it over with and Empty Guns was still clearly concious.

    While Peter's best days might be behind him he had a LOT more in the tank then Monte and VK dismantled him in impressive fashion. Nobody has ever beaten down Peter like that. No WK, Toney or McCline.

    I said it before and say it again, the only intangible in this fight is if VK gets old overnite/injured, otherwise , no matter what fancy training or prep Haye musters up is going to help him to win this fight.

    Peter already took care of Vk's ring rust, so that is not going to be a issue, as a matter of fact, I believe, unless his body betrays him, he will look considerable more fluid against Haye.

    I see the big man eating the occassional big shot but staying behind the jab walking the mediocre chinned smaller fighter down somewhere mid fight time.