Devolution into Madness: Norton vs Holmes

Surviving Foreman would be a lot more difficult than surviving Shavers. Foreman hits near as hard and is an immensely better fighter.

Holmes was absolutely not past it vs Snipes. As a matter of fact he was extremely close to peak let alone prime.

 

I stand corrected I feel Holmes started slipping in the Smith fight.
That being said Holmes did get caught by a big 230 Ib? Snipes then beat the daylights out of him for a TKO
Holmes recoup ability when he was prime were incredible. I disagree that a prime Foreman can beat a prime Holmes and that's all there is to it. Holmes has way too many skills to rely on for a prime Foreman who mainly relied on power to win. Don't see it happening and never will.

 

213.

Picking Holmes over Foreman is perfectly ok and orthodox. Doesn't mean he would or wouldn't win of course.

 

Great analysis Escudo.

So you do not think Foreman would be successfully drawn into punching himself out against many then, including Holmes?

 

I agree not many fighters in history would have got thru those early rounds. I've always stood by this.

 

First of all snipes weighed 215 when he fought Holmes not 230.but he could weigh 260. He never could dream with hitting as hard as foreman did.
You can say that you pick holmes over foreman but saying that foreman COULD NOT beat Holmes is laughable

 

Your posts are so one sided and opinionated like a child it's not even worth my time. I do not care what u think.

 

Haven't been following it but nice thread .. a pleasure to see one not troll infected. I will dig in later today if time permits.

 

It's a tough call imo. Foreman's power was his most obvious weapon but he brought some other assets as well. The ability to cut the ring on a boxer. Foreman wouldn't be an easy guy for Holmes to stay away from. Foreman also brought uncommon strength, he was able to move guys with glancing blows and manhandled Joe Frazier like it was easy. Even pushing him back 3 or 4 steps. He had a homicidal mentality in those early rounds that isn' something you can prepare for. Ernie Shavers was a good puncher. George Foreman was a force of nature in those days. Not saying Holmes couldn't survive those moments (he might) but it's no gimme. He would have to dig deep.

 

Six days earlier, Holmes and Giachetti were wondering if there would be a fight to score. While sparring with Luis Rodriguez—no kin to the old welter-weight champ—Holmes suddenly left the ring clutching his left arm. His elbow had collided violently with Rodriguez' elbow.

"It feels funny," Holmes told Giachetti, who packed the arm in ice. An hour later they were at the Desert Springs Hospital, where the fighter was examined by Dr. Anthony Serfustini and Keith Kleven, a physical therapist, who found torn tissue in the biceps.

"How bad is it?" Giachetti asked.

The answer: bad enough to postpone the fight.

"For how long?"

"Four months."

Holmes shook his head. "No way," he said. "What can you do for me now?"

Yeah just an excuse. Man these Holmes haters can just be crazy sometimes.

 

I gotta excuse Norton from the equation altogether. Yes Norton had an excellent jab not denying that. Against Foreman in Norton's own words he was already lost befor the bell even rung with all the mind games he claimed were played on him hours leading up to the fight. But you also can't compare Norton fighting Foreman to Holmes fighting him. Norton could only move forward he didn't have the legs chin toughness confidence or ring generalship Larry had.
As far as the Ali fight goes from the second the bell rang to every time they exchanged punches Ali was all over George. Ali went to the ropes because he didn't trust his legs and body to fight for 3 min a round anymore and wore George out.
We saw how a Peralta handled a still green George but a George who didn't evolve all that much. George's only defense at that time was sticking his arms out to block and occasionally parrying punches. George also did not know how to pace himself when he was prime which is why he ran out of gas then but not 2nd time around.
Larry had everything in abundance to capitalize on these mistakes and stop a completely exhausted Foreman later on in the fight.
Larry using a combo of just the rite amount of movement..clinching jabbing with the rt hand behind it and being the superior ring general that he is takes this fight.