Did Ali actually struggle with Mildenberger?

On a curve yes. Mildenberger was the closest anyone came to beating Ali in a 60s title fight however far he might have been. He did some damage to Ali late in that fight. Nothing like that happened to Ali until the 70s.

The 60s isn't one of the stronger eras but looks worse next to the 70s. The 60s problem is Liston, Ali and then Frazier running through everyone else quite easy. Terrell got height sterotyped as only winning because of his size.

The 60s is like the Wlad era in a lot of ways.

 

No, Ali just suffered from what I call the "greatness foolery", where people put him at such an impossibly high standard that any fight where he doesn't just breeze through his man is considered a struggle, so they see Mildenberger landing a good punch or two (imagine getting hit by a guy whose profession is to punch, couldn't be me) and they think it translates to Ali struggling.

In actuality Ali just had his timing a bit off due to the stance for the first few rounds, then he adjusted it and beat the stuffing out of Karl. Never even understood why people use this fight to prove anything. You can't prove Ali being bad against southpaws because he didn't struggle, but you can't prove him being good against southpaws either because it's, well, Mildenberger.

But I do think Ali would do better against southpaws than someone of his era should because of how good his right hand was. Usyk would confuse him a lot but Sanders, Moorer, I don't think Ali would have much trouble with those.

 

When a southpaw and an orthodox fighter meet its very common to see heads clash. What is important to the outcome is the fact that Mildenberger landed a great left that rocked Cooper after which Cooper dove into a clinch. The referee broke them, looked at Coopers eye, and then disqualified Mildenberger. The punch cut Cooper and the ref stopped the fight not because of a headbutt but because of the cut. That should have been ruled a TKO for Mildenberger. If it was a headbutt that caused the ref to stop the fight why not stop it immediately? Why check the eye? It was Cooper who rushed headfirst into the clinch after getting rocked. If the ref really thought it was a headbutt then it should have been Cooper who was called for it, not Mildenberger. In Europe at that time if a fight was stopped after the halfway point under accidental circumstances the fighter ahead on points was awarded the victory so if the ref really believed it was a headbutt he still blew the call by calling it a DQ. But the fact that he only stopped it after checking the cut is telling. That should have been a TKO for Mildenberger with an immediate rematch.

 

1.Cooper was well ahead on points.
2. It was not an accidental head butt. Mildenberger had been butting quite a bit earlier ,so under no circumstances ,could or should the fight have been awarded to Mildenberger.
3.Mildenberger was a warned for butting twice before the fight was stopped.
4.Mildenberger retired after the fight.

 

You can see clearly that Mildenberger lands a solid punch which rocks Cooper. Cooper immediately dives into a clinch. The referee parts them and immediately checks Coopers eye after which he stops the fight and disqualifies Mildenberger. It doesnt matter what happened before or after only what resulted in the stoppage.

 

Actually it matters a great deal what happened before,because Mildenberger had been butting pretty frequently ,the last one was the final straw . Cooper's eye was not so bad that the fight would have been stopped because of it anyway, some of us got the impression Mildenberger fouled out intentionally,he was well behind on points and blowing.

Mildenberger only won the vacant title by default ,when Cooper was stripped of it because he was unable to defend it because of injury

 

It was a punch, not a headbutt and even if the referee thought it was a headbutt why did he check the cut and then stop the fight? It was Cooper who dove head first into the clinch, so even if Mildenberger had been headbutting all night the "headbutt" that supposedly stopped the fight was Coopers fault. Jim Wicks said that Cooper couldnt have continued.

You mean the vacant title that Cooper won by beating Brian London and refused to defend against Mildenberger which got him stripped? Had Cooper actually fought Mildenberger in 1964 instead of siding with the BBBofC in their war against the EBU and ducked Mildenberger I feel confident Mildenberger would have beaten him more easily than Roger Rischer did when Cooper finally stuck his head out of the sand.

 

Cooper had a torn knee cartilage thats why he couldn't defend his title,I told you this,

Cooper never ducked MIldenberger he was angling for a WBA title fight with Jimmy Ellis .

You want to compare respective results against common opponents?
Mildenberger v Richardson. Richardson wins by 1 round ko.

A year later Cooper ko's Richardson in3 rds!

WTF did Mildenberger ever beat?

 

Im sure he had an excuse for not fighting Chuvalo either even though Jim Wicks wouldnt have gone near Chuvalo with a ten foot pole. That was Coopers excuse for not wanting to face Mildenberger. Im sure its also just an unfortunate coincidence that Cooper finally decided to fight Mildenberger only after Leotis Martin knocked his head off.

Mildenberger drew with Amos Johnson, who beat Cooper. He drew with Folley who beat Cooper. He beat Eddie Machen. He went further against Ali than Cooper could in two fights combined. He beat Joe Bygraves who stopped Cooper. He beat Wayne Bethea before Cooper did. He beat Billy Walker before Cooper.

The tape doesnt lie. Mildenberger cut Cooper with a punch. The ref stopped the fight because of the cut, not the supposed headbutt that Cooper initiated anyway. It was a bad call.

 

It was a one-sided beatdown.

Ali knocked his man down three times and was well ahead on all scorecards when he stopped the German.

 

I watched it again yesterday. The journalist who joined Howard Cosell calling the fight had it a shutout.

 

You need to turn off Howard's distracting commentary.

The man had no real clue about the sport and didn't have an inkling about the fight he was watching.

 

Not really.

What
Ali did--and later Larry Holmes---was to correctly gauge the skill level of his opponent. So many times he came in at 80% which was good enough to win the bout. He saved the 100% efforts against elite competition. And Ali was terrific at this and a reason why he last so long in the sport at the top.

Most guys have like a 3 year window of excellence. Then it drops off significantly. That is where coming in at 80% is so important. Really tough to pull off & you also need the ability to properly gauge the skillset of the opponent. But what it boils down to is less wear and tear and being confident to go ahead and be satisfied with a late stoppage or decision instead of being razor sharp for the quickie stoppage.

 

So Coopers torn meniscus cartilage was phoney?
Is that what you are saying?
Cooper lost to Bygraves when Bygraves was 26 he had previously beaten him.
Mildenberger beat Bygraves when Bygraves was 31.
In
63 Cooper was unranked,Mildenberger was no8 Chuvalo no9
64 Cooper was unranked.Mildenberger was no7 Chuvalo no5
65 Cooper was unranked . Mildenberger was no4,Chuvalo no3
66 Cooper was unranked.Mildenberger was no5 ,Chuvalo was no 8
So why didnt Mildenberger fight Chuvalo?

Folley beat Cooper, but Cooper also beat him.
Rischer was no8 in 64 Mildenberger was no7,so why didnt Mildenberger fight him?

Cooper had a torn meniscus cartilage that's why he didn't defend his title against MIldenberger thats 3 times I've told you this now.
Cooper lost to Bygraves whom he had also previously beaten when Bygraves was 26,Mildenebrger beat Bygraves when Bugraves was 31. Cooper lost to Folley, but he also beat him.
Mildenberger was ranked in
63, 64,65.66,67, Cooper was not.

For 63,64,65,66,Chuvalo was also ranked,so why didn't Mildenbrger fight him?

63,64,65,66,67 . Mildenberger was in the top ten so were the following:
Patterson
Liston
Quarry
Spencer
Rischer
Terrell
Ramos
Persol
Frazier
Ellis
Hilton
Jones
Chuvalo
Williams
London

So how come he never fought any of them.
Mildenberger fought Machen was Eddie was on the slide and no longer ranked.
The ranked figher he drew with was Folley, Here is the fight report.
"Veteran Zora Folley gave young Karl Mildenberger a boxing lesson Friday night but the judges evened it up and called it a draw - a verdict that stunned most of the 12,000 fans that jammed the Messehalle here to watch the two highly ranked heavyweights in what was billed as an elimination match. Folley carved out cuts under Mildenberger's eyes and repeatedly scored with solid left jabs and straight right hands over the southpaw efforts of the German challenger. By the end of the 7th round Mildenberger had cuts under both eyes while Folley bled from the nose as a result of Mildenberger's left. Referee Otto Nispel took it upon himself to stop the fight time and again to warn Folley on butting and in the 8th round Nispel stopped the fight while he took Mildenberger to his corner and wiped the blood off his face so a doctor could come to the ringside and examine the cuts. Mildenberger, although clearly outclassed, never stopped trying and absorbed a tremendous amount of punishment from the American. He was still trying gamely in the 9th and 10th while Folley was content to coast and that was all the judges seemingly needed." -European Stars & Stripes

• Unofficial Stars & Stripes scorecard - 7-2-1 Folley
• The UPI reported that Folley, "appeared to have the upper hand against his 26 year old opponent." While the AP reported that Folley, "appeared to have piled up a good margin. He gave the German a battering in the 7th and 8th rounds."

Thats the reason Mildenberger fought in Germany!

Cooper fought 3 World champions and ten times men who were either top ten ranked or champion. How many did Mildenberger fight?

Cooper was an old man for boxing in the middle 60's, but still too good for Mildenberger who was DSQ'd for illegal use of the head, when well behind on points.I know this because I was there!

I know this becas wasthere!