Did Ali and Holmes have True Granite Chins

So if McCall and Chuvalo(i know he fought some) had Liston,Williams,Frazier,Foreman,Shavers,Norton,Lyle and Patterson on their resumes they would still not have been floored?

 

I don't think they'd have decked either. McCall stood up to shots from huge punchers and was never close to being dropped.

Chuvalo faced several huge punchers and also was never dropped.

 

Yes but they never had to repeatedly fight the type of guys Ali did.

 

I still don't think they'd have been dropped. Neither ever showed that they were about to go down. Even against Foreman launching bombs at Chuvalo, Chuvalo was still completely fine and setting himself to start throwing back.

 

I'm a big fan of Chuvalo. Have met him and chatted with him.

However, had the Foreman fight been allowed to continue (good stoppage), I've little doubt that Chuvalo would have tasted the canvas eventually.

 

Sorry my comment seems foolish to you. But I stick by my assertion. Ali had a very good chin, but it was not granite. Ali never took the head shots that the guys I mentioned did; and Ali was badly dazed on more than one occasion and, of course, was dropped numerous times. A guy with a true granite chin is rare.

 

George is one of the strongest looking people that I've ever met. Even in his 70s the man is still clearly a very powerful individual.

Had the Foreman fight continued, I don't think George would've been dropped. He was very good at rolling with punches and obviously taking them when he had to.

He definitely would not have one, but I see him sticking it to the end or being stopped on his feet at another point.

 

He was only dropped 3 times. Twice before he won the title. I wouldn't call it numerous.

 

Fine, but you're in a small minority in denying Ali had a granite chin, cast-iron jaw, steel whiskers--choose your metaphor.

Chuvalo was done before three rounds with Foreman and four with Frazier, with whom Ali went a total of 49 rounds, with one knockdown in the 15th round.

McCall's brain was buzzed after taking some massive shots from Lennox Lewis.

Had these fights gone 15, you can be sure even these extraordinarily solid specimens would have fallen. No man is immune to the knockdown.

P.S. Wepner was a fluke; so why say 4 knockdowns? Ali also went 15 rounds with Earnie Shavers, 7 with Sonny Liston, 11 with Ron Lyle, and 39 with Ken Norton. That's 121 rounds against bona-fide punchers and one 4-second knockdown. Give a man his due!

 

I feel and understand what you saying, but Ali was floored, and that takes off a couple of minor points.Marvin Hagler was immune to the knockdown.

 

Not granite, but a very good chin. If Ali took the same punches that Joe Frazier and Ken Norton took against Foreman, and remained standing, I'd say he'd have a granite chin. Ali's style helped him take punches; he was quick, mobile, and lightning fast. His reflexes allowed him to pull back from and/or ride with punches. He wasn't a flatfooted, come forward kind of guy who invited punches like a Chuvalo, Cobb, McCall, Coetzer, etc. Those guys took massive, head-on shots from big punchers and, for the most part, remained standing and lucid.
Could Ali have taken the exact same punches that those guys took and remained standing? It's possible, but he didn't.
Ali had a great chin, but not a granite one! There's a difference!

 

Did Ali and Holmes have true granite chins? I would say on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being granite, Ali and Holmes were about an 8.5 to 9.0.

However each man had mental fortitude, recovered quickly from a hard punch, and could use their legs to escape. Ali could his arms/strength to lock up and clinch, or acting ability to suggest he wasn't hurt when he really was.

 

I think Ali had a excellent chin and Holmes a very good chin, Ali was dropped by Frazier and got up. Holmes went down hard to Snipes and Shavers but got up and won, I think he proved a solid chin even though Tyson took it to another level....Holmes was old but IMO Tyson punched over the tipping point for Holmes and with 2 hands...Holmes was vulnerable to the right, Ali to the hook but a 2 fisted puncher that has good follow up would be the guy to worry about for these men.

 

Thanks.

It is clear this is your formula: never floored = granite chin.

I allow for flash knockdowns like Marciano's by Walcott, those suffered pre-prime like Clay's by Cooper, and promptly rising from a crushing knockdown after 14 grueling rounds like Ali at FOTC.

To me, a granite chin is evidenced by a guy who withstands the heaviest blows in getting the job done in the ring, OR by a guy who gets the **** kicked out of him, yet remains standing to the end. Holmes is out because you hit him heavily on the chin and down he'd go, though keeping him down was a different proposition altogether, on account of his heart.

Tex Cobb gets my nod, YET: Dee Collier stopped him in 1 round!

Chuvalo gets my nod, YET: ONE George Foreman 3rd-round blow effectively ended his night.

McCall gets my nod, YET: 3 rounds of Lennox Lewis rocked him into bitter tears of defeat.

Ali gets my nod: 121 rounds of Foreman, Shavers, Frazier, Liston, Lyle, Norton, many times just standing there, YET: he was never stopped, finally conquering all these monsters.

 

Of course, Ali's style helped; but he too, as an old man, took massive shots when rope-a-doping or just standing there flat-footed, yet, in contrast to the guys you mention, he was never stopped under a hail of blows.

I am particularly impressed by a massive 7th-round uppercut by George Foreman that a rope-a-doping Ali took without protest in Zaire, the mammoth Earnie Shavers shots Ali showed immunity to over 15 stanzas, the several crushing Frazier blows Ali absorbed on the ropes in Manila, and even the lethal shots Larry Holmes administered, to no avail, at the Last Hurrah.

Behind the cherubic Ali face was truly a mean, badass truck driver.