Did Ali Fight A Shot Frazier For 2 And 3...?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by PACZ, Sep 10, 2007.


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  1. PACZ

    PACZ Czarnina-Sippin []ing Fan Full Member

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    Coming Off A Loss Like He Did Against Foreman, Frazier May Have Already Been A Shot Fighter Against Ali For His Losses Aginst Him. Anyone Else Think This Way? What Would Have Happened If Frazier Never Fought Foreman? Different Outcome? Foreman Hurt Him Bad. That Fight Happened Before Ali-frazier 2 And 3.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpEuGaRp9l8
     
    PACZ, Sep 10, 2007
    PACZ, Sep 10, 2007
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Foreman hurt him, but the guy who really took it out of him was Ali himself in the first losing effort, in my opinion.

    But this word "shot", no, of course not. Frazier's losing effort in III is up there. Frazier is a lesser fighter in my opinion, but still a very very good one. See his improved showing in Foreman II if you doubt it after watching him in Ali III, where he arguably would have beaten other great fighters.
     
    McGrain, Sep 10, 2007
    McGrain, Sep 10, 2007
    #2
  3. PACZ

    PACZ Czarnina-Sippin []ing Fan Full Member

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    Good point. A fighter might never be the same after that beating..
     
    PACZ, Sep 10, 2007
    PACZ, Sep 10, 2007
    #3
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    mr. magoo, Sep 10, 2007
    mr. magoo, Sep 10, 2007
    #4
  5. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Frazier eventually spent a few weeks in the hospital due to complications from the first Ali fight, didn't him?

    Some fighters never from that kind of abuse. Joe won, but at a price I think.
     
    Russell, Sep 10, 2007
    Russell, Sep 10, 2007
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  6. semichin

    semichin Guest

    The first fight alone took alot outta both of them
     
    semichin, Sep 10, 2007
    semichin, Sep 10, 2007
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He was in and out for months.

    According to his own testimony he slept the first few nights on a bed of ice his temperature got so high. There was talk that he would not be able to fight again. For all his genuine fury concerning Ali's verbals I think one of Frazier's main reasons for hating Ali so entirely had to do with his constant harping about Frazier's hospital stay after his victory. Ali seemed to (or claimed to) see it as some sign that it was he, and not Joe who had "really" won the fight.

    Frazier was in bad trouble in the hospital, no question. Many men wouldn't have come back as strong I guess.
     
    McGrain, Sep 10, 2007
    McGrain, Sep 10, 2007
    #7
  8. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I wouldn't say he was "shot," at least for the second fight, but he had lost a lot since their first meeting. Ali was on the slide, too, but with his style he didn't decline as quickly as Joe did.
     
    Marciano Frazier, Sep 10, 2007
    Marciano Frazier, Sep 10, 2007
    #8
  9. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ali, while far from shot, was past HIS best the first time he fought Frazier.

    His speed was gone.

    He was still fast, but not quite what he was four years earlier.
     
    cuchulain, Sep 10, 2007
    cuchulain, Sep 10, 2007
    #9
  10. Blacc Jesus

    Blacc Jesus . Full Member

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    What was it about Frazier's style that left him prone to so much damage?
     
    Blacc Jesus, Sep 10, 2007
    Blacc Jesus, Sep 10, 2007
    #10
  11. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Correct, he was definitely past his absolute best. Not totally shot. :good
     
    Holmes' Jab, Sep 11, 2007
    Holmes' Jab, Sep 11, 2007
    #11
  12. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Frazier wasn't the same guy from their first fight, but Muhammad was not exactly at his best anymore either.
    Six of one and half a dozen of the other.
     
    fists of fury, Sep 11, 2007
    fists of fury, Sep 11, 2007
    #12
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If Frazier was shot ,it was Ali that fired the bullet not Foreman ,he lost their first fight but won the war,after that hammering Frazier defended against Daniels and Stander neither of whom should have been anywhere near a title fight,maybe Yank Durham Joe,s manager knew something about Frazier we didnt at the time.
     
    mcvey, Sep 11, 2007
    mcvey, Sep 11, 2007
    #13
  14. Sweet Science

    Sweet Science Peaceful Muslim Warrior Full Member

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    I concur, Frazier from '74 had lost quite a bit of his fizz. The consensus tends to be that Foreman did this to Frazier. However, FOTC also played a big part in this. Although Frazier always gave a good account of himself, despite this he was never quite the same again after '71.
     
    Sweet Science, Sep 11, 2007
    Sweet Science, Sep 11, 2007
    #14
  15. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A quick blowout very rarely leaves much mileage on a fighter's lifespan. It's those long, bloody wars that takes it's toll.
     
    fists of fury, Sep 11, 2007
    fists of fury, Sep 11, 2007
    #15
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