Did Ali Fight Find The Antidote

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jun 27, 2007.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    To his own particular brand of poison?

    In defeating Frazier 2/3, did he beat the heavyweight who, in the history of the entire division, was the most difficult for him stylisticly?

    If so, is this an even greater achievment than his composite resume (Excluding Frazier)? I mean, does he deserve more credit for pulling this of than for beating the other top fighters he met?
     
    McGrain, Jun 27, 2007
    McGrain, Jun 27, 2007
    #1
  2. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    The antidote in the second fight was holding a lot and having a lenient ref that would allow such tactics.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Jun 27, 2007
    My dinner with Conteh, Jun 27, 2007
    #2
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Regardless, if he'd defeated the one guy in heavyweight history best equipped to beat him, some achievment.
     
    McGrain, Jun 27, 2007
    McGrain, Jun 27, 2007
    #3
  4. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    But Frazier was a bit past his best, regardless.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Jun 27, 2007
    My dinner with Conteh, Jun 27, 2007
    #4
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ali was also past his best.

    Niether could be considered a has been.

    And regardless it was the first fight with Ali that really hurt Joe.
     
    McGrain, Jun 27, 2007
    McGrain, Jun 27, 2007
    #5
  6. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Ali fought a great fight in 1971 and a peak Frazier only just beat him. It's fair to say Ali wasn't quite at his very best.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Jun 27, 2007
    My dinner with Conteh, Jun 27, 2007
    #6
  7. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In fight two, Ali figured him out big time, it was Frazier's amazing sprit that kept him on his feet in fights two and three.
     
    TBooze, Jun 27, 2007
    TBooze, Jun 27, 2007
    #7
  8. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well, McGrain, I have to agree with Conteh and say that both subsequent victories are a bit tainted. I would be curious to know what might have been had Mercante reffed all three fights. I suspect Ali would have had more problems. Mercante wasn't having all that holding and clinching.

    Ali had stylistic problems with Norton too.

    I suspect that the best antidote for Ali would have been poisoning Eddie Futch. Heh.
     
    Stonehands89, Jun 27, 2007
    Stonehands89, Jun 27, 2007
    #8
  9. Marnoff

    Marnoff Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Frazier was difficult stylistically, but Tyson would have been more so - just in regards to your statement that Frazier may have been the most stylistically challenging of all Heavyweights to Ali.
     
    Marnoff, Jun 27, 2007
    Marnoff, Jun 27, 2007
    #9
  10. mightyd40

    mightyd40 Spartan Full Member

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    mcgrain that new avatar pic is the greatest.........liston is the man
     
    mightyd40, Jun 27, 2007
    mightyd40, Jun 27, 2007
    #10
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's a beaut isn't it? It's the best photograph i've ever seen of Liston.
     
    McGrain, Jun 27, 2007
    McGrain, Jun 27, 2007
    #11
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I am inclined to say no because he never really solved the stylistic problem's posed by Frazier or Norton for that matter.
     
    janitor, Jun 28, 2007
    janitor, Jun 28, 2007
    #12
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Which is my point really. Popular opinion holds that every fighter has a fighter that poses the greatest threat regardless of how good because of their style. Now Ali is unlucky enough to share an era with the guy who, if he had fought in the fifties, we would all post as being the guy who "would give Ali fits" - he is made to fight Ali. And Ali beat him twice.

    You have spoken about Tunney, perhaps, being the one guy you would be keen to steer Louis clear of - imagine he held two wins over Gene.
     
    McGrain, Jun 28, 2007
    McGrain, Jun 28, 2007
    #13
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Frazier genuinely is one of the hardest possible opponents for Ali from any era. My only criticism is that he did not adapt his style substantialy with each outing.
     
    janitor, Jun 28, 2007
    janitor, Jun 28, 2007
    #14
  15. Muskyrat

    Muskyrat Member Full Member

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    agree with you about norton those two seemed to give ali more problems than anybody else he faced
     
    Muskyrat, Jun 28, 2007
    Muskyrat, Jun 28, 2007
    #15
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