Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Nov 30, 2010.


  1. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not with Tommy Burns's reign around.
     
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Why is so much being made of Doug Jones? He was a journeyman who Clay fought when he was 20 years old, with 17 pro fights, and still won regardless of the close nature of the win.. In addition, by the time Clay was champion, Jones was regularly losing, so what does this have to do with his reign being "easy?"
     
  3. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Was there supposed to be a rematch with Liston earlier than November that Ali was hurt while training for? Or are you referring to Ali's hernia postponement days before the scheduled November fight?
     
  4. Jear

    Jear Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali only fought Cooper between Jones and Liston and that was in England a few months later.
    Ali was Ring fighter of the year in 63 so obviously it wasnt thought that he was ducking Jones.
    Who was recently knocked out prior to facing Ali?

    Seems you are throwing names up as people deserving shots but have no basis for them being deserving. Machen lost virtually all his fights during Ali reign, Spencer lost everytime he would start to make himself viable and only really deserved a shot as Ali went into exile and now its Jones who had a good 65 fighting .500 fighters while Ali fought Liston and Patterson
     
  5. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think calling him a journeyman is a bit harsh. Jones was a legitimate top contender in the light heavyweight and heavyweight divisions in his day, but was unfortunate to fight the likes of Harold Johnson and a young Muhammad Ali. His career went downhill soon after the Fight of the Year with Cassius Clay. But at his best, he was tough as nails and had solid technical skills, if a leaky defense.

    Jones gave him a tough test but it's an equally tough task to score the fight for him, viewing it on film.
     
  6. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I thought we had decided that 'sparring sessions' mean nothing.
    OH, unless Ali is the one doing the beating up, then they're legitimate.

    C'mon, Doug Jones-Cassius Clay II should have taken place in 1963,
    at Madison Square Garden, sometime in the fall.

    Of course the guy had to fight, and eat. How long could wait for a
    title fight or another shot at Ali.

    Ali-Liston II had to take place. Thats the only names in boxing that mattered back then.
    There was so much 'stink' on that first fight, who cared about
    little 185 lb. Doug Jones.
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Fair enough, but it seems that a lot is being made of Ali never rematching him. It would be one thig if the guy had put together a lengthy streak of wins over quality fighters and acheived mandatory status after Ali won the title, but that didin't happen. James Douglas lost to David Bey early in his career, does this mean that he should have given him a title shot after beating Tyson?
     
  8. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It wasn't really a sparring session, more so a test to see how much Ali had improved from his earlier days. Many fighters fought exhibitions in those days and went at it for real. It was uncompetitive by that point.
     
  9. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    sweetsci,

    Thanks for the compliments.

    There's more competitive action here, than any of Ali's defenses in his 65'-67' reign.8)

    The real point here, is that based on the fighers he fought, it was really an easy reign.
    Not one of the fighters were really given much of a chance to defeat him.
    This part of his career was 'window dressing'.
     
  10. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Was it an easy reign because of Ali's extraordinary abilities, because of his challengers' limitations, or a combination of both? I believe the latter.

    Any thoughts on my question regarding Ali in '64 at the end of page 16?
     
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sweetsci,

    I agree with your assessment,,,,,,,,,,

    You know, on 2/17/64, 1-week before the Ali-Clay fight in Miami, Eddie Machen knocked out trial-horse Duke Sabedong in the 1st Round in San Francisco.
    I can't remember if it was in the San Francisco Chronicle or Oakland Tribune, but
    Eddie stated that he was ready to take on Sonny Liston again, after he gets through with Cassius Clay next week.

    Of course Eddie was in-line for a fight, but,,,,,,,,,,,,
    It could have been set up in Philadelphia for mid-summer.
    The boxing authorities demanded a re-match, but the boxing insiders (Las Vegas, Chicago, New York) didn't want that fight.
    Do you think they knew something8)
     
  12. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    He lost...and was out of the ring for a year as done said. Should Ali have knocked down his door and dragged him into the ring. When Jones started his comeback he failed to secure a high enough ranking to face the Champion.
     
  13. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    AHHH!!
    Goosemon,

    I said Cassius Clay-Doug Jones re-match should have been in late 1963, as
    an eliminator for a chance at the title.
    It warranted it.

    A Doug Jones title fight with Ali would have been great for mid-year 1964.
    But, Ali-Liston II took precedent.
    Of course, Jones had to fight 'and eat', so he took other fights, that weren't great match-ups for him.
    A close decision loss to capable and tall Billy Daniels, and a 12-round fight with George Chuvalo, which he lost by
    Knock-out in 11.
    Check-out the Jones-Chuvalo fight. Jones was pitching a near shut-out, until Chuvalo wore him down.
    Chuvalo out-weighed little Doug by 26 lbs.
     
  14. bigjake

    bigjake Active Member Full Member

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    trying to rewrite boxing history.
     
  15. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Blame Liston's handlers, then.

    Liston had already agreed to face Ali by that point.