Did Ali have the easiest Heavyweight reign 65'-67'

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Nov 30, 2010.


  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Indeed,

    Fighting that many times with many of those bouts taking place in the opponent's back yard is bull****, especially considering how week his opposition was. Ali should be ashamed of himself for fighting Liston, Patterson, Terrell, Williams, Folley, Chuvalo, and Mildenberger...

    The men he REALLY should have been defending his so called title against were Doug Jones, Eddie Machen, as well as even calling Ingo out of retirement.. Its all about the quality and it just wasn't there.
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    What Ali really needed to do was take a page out of Jack Dempsey's book, and defend his title maybe once every few years, forgetting about facing the top contenders to take on a few obscurities.
     
  4. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  5. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Mr. Magoo,

    Thanks for the input.
    That line about George Chuvalo being Canadien,,,,,classic:lol:
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Not sure why you're being sarcastic.

    As I've said many times here, Ali's reign cannot be faulted and the opposition was not that bad at all. And he fought everyone he should have.

    I just don't think his reign was better for having 9 defences rather than, say, 4 or 5.

    Terrell, and I suppose Liston and Patterson and maybe Folley, those 4, would have been very nearly as good as the 9. The 5 guys he fought in '66 were gravy, and gravy doesn't hold much weight with me.
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    While you have to have qualified challengers, I think there is also something to be said for activity, especially if you're traveling on the road to do it.. Would Joe Louis have had 25 title defenses, had he not stayed busy early in his reign with some of those second raters?
     
  8. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There are many comparisons that can be made.
    Everyone's input on this thread have been both honest, and debatable.

    No one can dispute, Ernie Terrell, Floyd Patterson and Zora Folley deserved
    title shots, despite some issues with each them.

    But their is one issue, with Patterson. Their was an attempt to put a Ali-Patterson II
    match together for April 25, 1967, during that first reign.
    You have to ask why?

    Las Vegas had the answer. 'Not here, while this planet still has human beings living on it'.
    After the Ali-Patterson I fight in Las Vegas (11/22/65) that sports group out there never had
    Patterson back for a fight.
    They didn't want him. Thats a fact!!!
     
  9. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Then he'd have been complimented on his "active and quality filled resume"
     
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    No, and we probably put too much stock in that number (25) rather than how many real threats he faced, or how good the best ones really were. Most of his challengers count for something, but some only a little and a few were clear set-ups.

    In years to come, now even, somebody might count Haye's win over Audley Harrison in a tally of title wins, a statistic.
    Dempsey and Louis probably had tough guys beaten in exhibitions that don't even appear on the official record who were better than Harrison.

    Ezzard Charles had 9 defences in 2 years too, and no one really even hears about it.
     
  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    True.
     
  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    On comical note.

    Its a shame that Corrie the sniper Sanders wasn't fighting back in 1966. If Cooper's left could deck Ali, just imagine was Corrie would have done to him.
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Sanders was a super-size hybrid of Cooper and Mildenberger and therefore a serious threat, and would have probably been filed under "Avoid at all costs", and would have suffered the same fate as Amos Johnson, who Ali was undoubtedly running scared of.
     
  14. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Unforgiven,

    Good point on Ezzard Charles,
    But, he ran through those defenses quick, because it was quick and easy money.
    He didn't care about any legacy.
    And the press weren't knocking him, because he was active on
    American soil.
     
  15. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Unforgiven,,,,,,that almost happened.

    On 6/21/66, Brian London fought Ohio-based and Top Ten ranked 'Atom' Amos Johnson in another one of those so-called 'Eliminator Fights".

    In Liverpool, London won over Johnson by a 7th Round DQ.
    Up to that point, the 27-year old #9 Johnson 22-3-2 (11 KO's) was battling Brian London pretty good, until the fight got rough, and the referee called a halt to the foul-filled bout. It should have been ruled a 'No-Contest'.

    Brian London got the fight with Ali, 2-months later, in England.

    Thad Spencer watched from a portable TV in a hotel room:verysad

    Hey, 'Atom Amos' beat-up Henry Cooper pretty good back on 10/65, and won an easy 10-round decision over him in England.

    He also, beat Casius Clay in the amateurs (No big-deal)

    Do you see a pattern here;
    American fighters beat-up British fighters on their own soil, before Ali.

    Then they get title fights with Ali?
    10/65 Amos Johnson over Henry Cooper (Ali vs Cooper 5/66)
    5/66 Thad Spencer over Brian London (Ali vs London 8/66)

    'Is it Safe'? (ie; Marathon Man)