Henry Tillman defeated Tyson in the amateurs. It didn't make him a runner up for the title during Tyson's championship years. I also wonder how old Ali was when that bout happened... 17 maybe? Anyway, Lincoln decisioned Cooper and drew with Mildenberger, but also got his ass handed to him 5 strait times in some 8 months from 1966-1967.
Hey Quincy Magoo, I said beating Cassius Clay in 1959 in the amateurs was no big deal, it was just a notch on Amos Johnson's credentials. I think Cassius was 17 and Amos Johnson was 19. Anyway, your missing the point. the (2) American fighters who beat the British fighters first, got the old 'Billy Baroo' Also, Amos Johnson' Draw10 with Karl Mildenberger in Germany (11/64), really equals another win.
You're absolutely right, but Ali-Cooper packed wembley stadium in England, whereas Amos Johnson or Thad Spencer against Ali wouldn't draw much anywhere, plus Ali was being hounded in the USA for his comments about refusing conscription. As you know, was all about money.
Unforgiven, I love you like a brother but,,,, A Muhammad Ali versus Pone Kingpetch fight would have drawn a million fans in Bangkok, Thailand back in 1966. For all you Pone Kingpetch fans. Pone was a 5' 6" 112 lb. Flyweight Champion, from Thailand. Your right though, Amos Johnson or Thad Spencer in England is a 'dog with fleas'. It was all about the $$ Money, like I've been trying to say all along.
Unforgiven thats '4' thumbs upthumbsup. Mr. Magoo also stated, that after the Brain London DQ, Amos Johnson lost 5 straight fights. Yes he did, by; Sonny Liston Oscar Bonavena Leotis Martin Elmer Rush Ray Anderson While Ali fought; Brian London Karl Mildenberger Cleveland Williams Ernie Terrell Zora Folley At least he fought tough guys. What a tough way to make a living!
Clearly Amos Lincoln should have been fighter of the year, facing tougher guys than the Champion did. If Ali fought Elmer Rush, Ray Andreson, and Liston III instead of easy opponents like Terrell and the washed up Folley, he would probably lose some as well.
Mongoose,,,,,,,,,now thats a pretty good counter-comeback. Not sure Amos Johnson gets fighter of the year, but his manager should have been arrested, and named 'Criminal of the Year' for putting his fighter in the ring with those guys. Keep the hits coming:good
Muhammad Ali had an honorable reign in the 1960's, that was by no means whatsoever easy, and certainly not the "easiest" ever. He defended his title about as acitivly as any man in history, fought the best contenders, traveled quite a bit to meet his challengers and usually won in impressive fashion. Frankly, I think its a stretch to say that he was obligated to face men like Doug Jones, Eddie Machen, Amos Lincoln, Amos Johnson, Thad Spencer or whatever. Even if he could have fought those men, they would not have been his best opponents, and nor would they have been huge attractions. In any case, of all the heavyweight champions to ever hold the greatest title in the world, none have a greater claim than Ali for ducking no one and facing the very best......No one..
Yeah, he was put in with Sonny Liston, Oscar Bonavena and Leotis Martin within a 4 month period. He tooks his licks against Liston too, didn't just come to lay down - or if he did he kept getting up ! [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH3fNCLrzo0[/ame]
Unforgiven, Nice video, Too bad about Amos Johnson. Probably would have given Ali a better fight than 'Lattern-Jaw' Brian London. If Amos was born white and lived in England, he would have been given a golden chariot ride to the fight at Wembley versus Ali, and dressed in a velvet robe. But since he was black, and lived in Ohio,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I'm sure you can fill in the blanks 8)
21 May -- Henry Cooper, London -- KO 6 6 Aug -- Brian London, London -- KO 3 10 Sep -- Karl Mildenberger, Frankfurt, Germany -- KO 12 fighting nearly once a month in that period in 1966 (how many champs risk doing that for starters?) - london was a tune up after cooper (both UK as he couldn't fight in the US - get it yet?) before facing Mildenburger. Ali gave most a chance at the title but he couldn't fight everyone and ofcourse money matters - boxers have a short career. Amos Johnson, Doug jones woud've ended up like Williams v 1966 Ali - he had improved loads and was bigger since their last pre-title fight nevermind going back to his amateur days.......
Groove, Glad you joined the show. Yep, Mr. Ali was a very busy guy. And of course, the money is 20X greater when fighting a guy in his home country, as opposed to fighting worthy challengers in your own country. European challengers take precedent, when you can't go home. And yes, he couldn't fight everyone. But when your a veteran who's been waiting for a title shot for 5 years, and then get yanked around because someone wants to go on a European Junket, and then are asked to wait in line for another 2 years, you can see how some guys can get stale and loose their sharpness, and general will in the fight game. Agree?
yes agreed and if ali wasn't stripped of his title after folley then i predict that he woulda whipped some of those boxers you speak of as he was fighting constantly at that stage in his career. and if bonavena was next up then i bet a 67 ali woulda done much better and coulda defended his title many times in those exile years (frazier was his only danger).