Did Ali make to many mistakes to beat tyson

Dude, Tyson at his prime fought in a weak era. He was a ball to watch, but there it is...

Ali fought in maybe the deepest era of heavyweights ever and might have been past his prime when he did so.

There's no comparison.

Ali by KO in 8.

 

I think Tyson would have had a good shot against the post-exile version of Ali, and certainly anytime at Frazier III or later, but the pre-war Ali had too much speed and movement.

I wouldn't expect a KO, but Ali should be the considerable favorite. When you factor in the intangibles, the difference becomes even more clear. That said, Tyson probably has a better chance against even a prime Ali than he does against, say, a prime Foreman.

 

How about a prime 60's Ali vs the meatball Tyson that Lennox Lewis KO'd?

 

1000%. Well said.

 

He would have had Tyson beat outside of the ring, months before they stepped in it. Ali was the KING of mental mind games, and Tyson has the psyche of a 4 year old.

 

You couldn't miss him with a punch? Watch Ali vs Liston, Terrel, Williams, Patterson or any of his fights during his prime. Ali fought wonderful and was extremely hard to hit, and frustrated his opponents both mentally before the fight and physically during it. Then watch Tyson vs Tillis and see how he can very much be bothered by that style. Sure enough Tyson wasn't at his peak yet, but Tillis is no Ali, either.

And before you point to Tyson and Frazier: they were completely different fighters. Frazier was not as big a puncher as Tyson and didn't take a punch as well either, but none of those matter here. First of all, Ali can't be taken out by single punches. Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Frazier, Lyle, etc, they all tried (most of them when Ali was declining) and none of them succeeded. Frazier beat Ali because of his extremely high work rate and fantastic left hook. Tyson is a lot more dangerous during the first 5 rounds, but after that he slows down significantly with his head movement becoming less and less; also during his prime, for instance against Tucker.

This is also why Tyson, despite being able to take one hell of a shot, was stopped in all his losses: his defence deteriorated to a certain degree as the fight wore on, and a great opponent like Ali, Holyfield, Douglas (on that night) takes advantage of that. Even if Douglas and Holyfield (or Ali) weren't big punchers, it doesn't matter: once your defence is gone, even a below-average hitting professional fighter will take you out of there, especially at heavyweight.


I very much like Tyson in head-to-head matchups, but Ali has all the tools to beat Tyson: mental intimidation, movement, not being afraid, stamina, chin. Whatever punch connects early on, he'll soak up, hold on and survive, only to take over from the mid-rounds on. I'd take Ali by decision or late TKO.

 

So I guess stuff like this is just luck?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2YCU2tAFt8

Ali was tremendously hard to hit. And yes he didn't do a lot of things by the book, as with the stepping back to get away from punches, but for almost his entire career he could get away with most of that because he was who he was and had the physical gifts that he did. Heck, I've seen him back straight away from jabs that Sonny Liston (who had an abnormally long reach and a tremendously stiff jab) threw at him at point blank range and Ali made them miss.

Everyone who is an expert on boxing knows that Ali wasn't technically sound. His style was completely unorthodox, but it worked for him. And he would have torn Tyson apart, first mentally, then physically.

 

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Excellent post.

 

atsch

I'd elaborate on this, but the other guys have already done so above me.

I'd bet on Ali to beat Tyson.

 

Ali would KO Tyson mid rounds kinds like Lennox Lewis

 

Tyson is bigger name to me

 

I can imagine Ali nicknaming Tyson "The Bulldog" for a Press Conference and throwing Milk Bones at him, and teasing him about being ugly. And I can imagine Mike Tyson getting angry initially, and then crying himself to sleep in the weeks leading to the fight, saying to himself that "it's not nice to call me ugly"