Did Ali ruin legacies with his skill?

Nah, Liston would have lost a bit later anyway, he was getting old and beeing champion takes away the dog in most fighters and I think this was true for Liston too. Foreman would have lost to Holmes, perhaps even earlier to Young.

 

Actually, Sonny Liston became more likeable after losing to Muhhamad Ali.

And George Foreman, maybe for a couple of years he was not everyone's favorite
personality, but look what happened.

I would say, Muhammad Ali put their legacies on hold, but did not ruin them.

 

When I first read this post, I thought that three guys in this forum would take umbrage. Interestingly, true to my gut feeling, two of them responded within half an hour of the thread being started.

Needless to say, both were negative. One was harsh on poor Liston and Foreman. He had to do that to belittle Ali's achievments.

The other was more clever. He said sweet nothings designed to diminish Muhammad's achievments. After all, what does popularity have to do with boxing reputation.

 

Liston was still very hard to beat IMO and he would have reigned until 69-70 when a young Joe Frazier would challenge him. Liston would have a style advantage but he'd be too old to win

Foreman would actually reign for a long time. I dont think the zaire foreman loses to young, imo foreman was too passive when he actually met young. And a fight with Holmes would be 50-50 for me.

So yeah i do think Liston's and Foreman's legacy would be greater. But i dont think Frazier's legacy would be quite as great. His biggest win came over ali. Had Frazier defeated an old Liston and lost to a young Foreman, i doubt people would regard him as a top 10 all time heavyweight.

 

Thats like saying the New York Jets ruined the NFL's legacy by beating the
Baltimore Colts.

Everybody loses at one time or another, unless your Rocky Marciano.

 

All great fighters,
but only ONE was the "Undefeated Heavyweight Champion of the World"

 

Of course.

The only real question is, who would be champion now : Liston or Foreman ?

:good

 

Overall that´s what I said. I don´t think Liston would rein quite as long, I think someone like Terrell, Folley or even Machen may have beaten him a bit earlier than that in 67 or 68. Liston just was getting old.

Foreman would reing longer too, Ali took something of him that´s why his post-Zaire career wasn´t as impressive as the one before - not counting the comeback. I don´t think he would beat Holmes. Young is likely though but I think Young may be able to upset him. However he wouldn´t reign until he get´s beaten by Briggs like reznik seems to think If he would have been able to do so, he would have been the greatest ever, ever, ever. Without a doubt.

I agree on Frazier, he would be seen a bit like Patterson is today.

 

In Germany the heavyweight champion is also called "champion of all classes" btw.

 

True but you know what they say, a great fighter has always one great fight left in him.