Did Ali ruin legacies with his skill?

Yeah, so did arguably Duran.

 

If Cassius Clay did not come along, or had been knocked off in 1963,
Sonny Liston only had one viable fighter, who would bring in big $$$ for an
early-1964 Title Fight.

Ingemar Johansson.
With the Tax-Laws and high marginal tax-rate, another bout in 1964 would have
netted Sonny Liston virtually nothing.
A risk, with no financial reward.

When the tax-laws changed for 1965, an opportunity for multiple defenses would
have been possible.
But who would Sonny Liston have fought, to generate big $$$.

I would think, Liston would have taken maybe 2 more in 1965, and retired.

Maybe a George Chuavlo and Zora Folley, or "OH MY GOD' a Floyd Patterson III.

 

Well, I wasn´t picking Machen to beat Liston. My argument was that by 67/68 Liston´s age would make him ripe for picking. Machen was still a viable contender then I think, although someone like Chuvalo would probably have been a better choice to mention.

Anyway, I didn´t compare Machen and Duran. I just wanted to highlight that you don´t necessarily need to beat an atg to be one yourself. ´Cause ven when you think Duran lost to every atg he faced, you have to acknowledge his greatness.

 

In 1965,,,,,as per closed circuit buys.
Both an Ernie Terrell and/or Eddie Machen versus Sonny Liston
would have been financial disasters for a fight promoter.

Even a Floyd Patterson III fight would have done 5x more at the box office.

 

I rarely followed the threads of Il Duce. His only agenda was and is to diminish Ali´s legacy. While I never made it a secret that I dislike Ali, I also always said that he is one of the two hws who have a claim for the top spot and I have huge admiration for his will.

Yeah. Might, not would. I don´t argue Machen is a better fighter than Liston but I think a mix of age, busy schedule and beeing champion - see my first post, most fighters lose their desire when beeing champ and looking at the Ali fights I don´t think Liston was an exception - would make him vulnerable, he wouldn´t be at his best.

Yes, but I assume he wouldn´t only fight one ranked contender but have a busy schedule like Ali had as a champ. Busy schedule against ranked opposition plus him getting old, I assume he would get beat by one of those fighters.

Point taken.

Not really.

I think he was a great fighter of his time. He wasn´t on the grand scale of things.

 

Bodhi,,,,,,,,,,You make it sound like all my posts are about Muhammad Ali.

As for Eddie Machen, in the 60's his 'last peak' time was in 1964, actually early-1964.
A time, when he would have been a 'pain-in-the-ass' to both Sonny Liston and Muhammad Ali.

Not win, but most likely frustate them both into a dull 15-Round bout.

 

Maybe Foreman would have retired unbeaten around 2003, with a record 30-year reign, a 100-0 record and 60 successful defences, if not for Ali.

It really depends on whether he could win the championship in 1973 though, because Liston would have still been alive, and champion. Foreman would have to get past Sonny .....

... very intriguing scenario.

 

What's the bug up your ass?

 

:d

 

Originally Posted by McGrain
Machen was never great. He lost to every great he ever fought.

so for example : sugar ray leonard and pipino cuevas are in you're opinion not great fighters ????????
you gotta explain that to me..