Did Ali thumb Terrell's eye?

Ali not only thumbed Terrell, but even rubbed Terrell's face against the ropes. Ali was a great fighter and champion, but like most champions wasn't above bending the rules and even outright cheating if he could get away with it. Even Dundee admitted that if you can get away with something in the ring that makes winning easier you should do it.

However, to be fair to Ali Terrell kind of had it coming with the way he kept egging Ali on by calling and even singing about how confused Cassius Clay was.

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If you watch this film, at the 11:50 mark (in Round 3), Ali throws a right uppercut with this right thumb facing up that hits Terrell in the left eye. Terrell reacts by falling in on Ali. Laying on him for several seconds and then pulling back and putting his left glove up to his eye. Before that, his left hand was kind of low. After that, he keeps the left hand up to protect the eye.

That's likely when it happened, with the right uppercut.

It's similar to the punch Larry Holmes threw against Scott Ledoux that caused similar damage.

It probably suffered more damage as the fight went on. But that looked like the initial punch, the right uppercut around 11:50. Between rounds, Cosell even mentions that Terrell's left eye is bloodshot and they were working on it.

 

Well he wasn't likely to admit it.

 

are you aware that you are fitting the evidence AROUND your conclusion, rather than drawing a conclusion from the evidence?

 

No, I'm not. There are tens of thousands of examples of fighters who were thumbed in fights by punches and there is ONE (according to Terrell) of a guy getting his eye pushed back in the socket by the freaking ROPE.

If you know what his injury was - his eyeball pushed back in the socket so it was forced to look straight ahead, causing double vision - there is no way it could happen the way Terrell claimed it did.

That's why it's been 51 years since that fight, and nobody believes Ernie Terrell's story.

Injuries like that come from a punch. The force of the blow with the thumb up shoving the eyeball back. Not a rope.

Terrell wanted everyone to believe Ali "cheated." It was a punch. It happened back then on practically every card almost nightly. There was often no way to avoid it, which is why they changed the design of the glove.

 

Scott Ledoux was thumbed in the eye by Holmes. Should we reaccess that performance, too?

 

Do we have any source on Terrell's injury (that his eye was pushed into its socket) other than his own words?

As for the rubbing against the ropes, I haven't seen any footage showing this. The seconds that are usually showed, rather shows that his eyes don't touch the ropes imo.

 

I personally don't think Ali did intentionally thumb Terrell, he had no need as his boxing skills that night were at a level way above Terrells, plus with Terrells height and reach advantage intentional thumb to eye by Ali would not be first choice fouling technique.

However Terrell had a open disregard for the Marquess of Queensberry rules, so who fouled most?

Terrell another boxer whose latter years were blighted by that evil condition of dementia.

RIP to the Octopus

 

Yeah, probably something like medical testimony saying that he had an injury that wasn't caused by punches and how that affected him.

Something seems to have happened to his eye according to ringside reporters, at least some kind of abrasion, which well could be caused by a thumb, seam or laces. But whether the eye was pushed back into its socket and the bone behind the eye was broken is another thing.