Did Ali thumb Terrell's eye?

Ok. I personally really can't say what it's more likely to have caused such an injury.

Cosell and Chuvalo also notes that in the third that Ernie's left eye has taken damage, which they believe are from jabs.

It isn't until the next round that Ernie complains of a thumb, which likely happened but doesn't seem intentional to my eyes. And he doesn't wince in pain or anything so it would surprise me if it did the kind of damage that the doctor described.

Terrell certainly did his fair share of fouling, but Ali was rougher than in any other fight I can remember.

 

This is one of the roughest fights I've seen Ali in. Terrell had a reputation for being a mauler and perhaps Ali felt he should fight fire with fire, or he just was pissed off.

Anyhow, a good deal of fouls from both guys. Both extend their lead arm with an open hand towards the other guys face on several occasions. Probably to gauge distance as well as disrupt the other guy. Ali also pushed Terrell off of him a couple of times using a hand to the face. He did quite a bit of holding as well, especially early on.

Terrell on his part came in with his head low, in perfect line to deliver a butt to Ali's chin, several times as well as rabbit punching and punching low.

The ref let a lot of things slide. He might have cautioned Ernie for a low blow, but that was about it.

 

It was reported in a few places. Here's one:

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=DS19670210.2.83

 

No it doesn't remove it. Terrel could have just thumbed him back or otherwise fouled him.
You go down that road of discrediting wins because of fouls then there is a looooooong list youre gonna have to look at.

 

Earnie expressly said it was in a clinch and showed me how Ali did it, I will need to look at the film again for a 1st round clinch or while they were in very close.

 

We

Well as for the quote this is not what Earnie said happened and its his story were talking about.

 

Light cloud in a teacup. Ali no doubt caught the odd guy with a thumb and Holmes was notorious for it. Both threw lots of jabs, good jabs.

 

Hilarious. I think the rounds leading up to the thumbing are a clear indication of how Ledoux would perform with 2 eyes. He never won a round.

 

I've seen no irrefutable proof of intentional thumbs.

 

That's the thing that's been missing. A lot of huff and puff without a smoking gun.

In rd 4 there is an incident where Ali pushes Ernie off him as he's dancing out of the corner and Ernie complains to the ref about a thumb. There probably was one but it doesn't look intentional to me.

And I have a hard time believing that the damage to Ernie's eye solely was connected to that. Some damage had already been done to the eye and it's not like Terrell winces in pain or anything before turning to the ref. He looks quite unaffected. In fact he has perhaps his best minute of the fight directly after.

So it's a big stretch for me to think the damage was done by that incident when Terrell seemed to have been thumbed in some manner rather than the dozens upon dozens of clean punches Ali landed in the area.

 

If we chase down the odd thumb and let it taint victories guys like Michael Spinks, Sandy Saddler, Eusebio Pedroza, Wilfredo Gomez, Roberto Duran, Holyfield, Zivic, Norris and a thousand others are going to be seriously affected.