Did Andy Ruiz Leave Joshua With Lasting Brain Damage?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Aug 17, 2021.


  1. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    Lost his confidence... which is why he agreed to fight Fury, and now is agreeing to fight Usyk. If he'd lost his confidence, he'd be trying his best to duck everyone like Wilder.
     
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  2. hobby rider

    hobby rider Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Agreed to fight fury this summer even whilst his trainer was working with the GB squad for the olympics. Can anyone imagine Fury doing that?
     
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  3. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Usyk will have to damn near kill AJ to force a stoppage in Britain. There was a fight recently where a Brit was getting beaten up by an Argentine and the ref threw the British towel out of the ring! And the Brit wasn't even a well-known fighter! The American ref would have let AJ get knocked down a 5th time by Ruiz and possibly more if AJ had given any indication of wanting to continue. Warrington-Lara should have been stopped 5 rounds earlier. If Usyk wins it will be an extremely brutal fight.
     
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  4. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Joshua won't get any credit after he knocks Usyk out.
     
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  5. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Usyk and his team aren't dumb; [url]they are aware[/url] of the speed/agility/gas for power/strength/mass/durability trade-offs. When Evan Fields moved up to heavyweight he put on 15 lbs of muscle mass but he was still faster than all of the bigger guys. Fields clearly believed that the extra weight was beneficial when fighting bigger men or he'd have fought HW's at 195 lbs instead of around 210 lbs and HW's are even bigger today. Usyk claimed to be [url]weighing 231 lbs[/url] back in mid-May so if true (and it could be misdirection) this is a longstanding plan and he's been adjusting to the weight. I don't think Usyk looked fleshy [url]weighing an even heavier 217.25 lbs against Chisora[/url] (which is only 5 lbs more than he was in the 2013 WSB fight [url]against Joyce[/url]) he just wasn't [url]drained on the scales[/url] as he was as a cruiser. Usyk said that [url]he could have been a bit heavier[/url] against Chisora but was happy with his weight for the fight. Usyk stated just after the Witherspoon fight that he wanted to be "[url]100 KG or a little more[/url]". I'm thinking Usyk will be below 225 lbs on the night but we will have to see.
     
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  6. Eggman

    Eggman "The cream of the crop! Nobody does it better! Full Member

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    Not an AJ fan but usyk is getting a real beating here
     
  7. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Thanks for the links

    Not sure about that. I'd say inviting the good buddy and longtime chief sparring partner of your opponent into your camp to help you prepare for them is pretty dumb as is experimenting with your weight by deciding to come much heavier than you've ever weighed before for the most important fight of your life. Personally I wouldn't have fought two good friends of my opponent in my last three fights prior to facing them either. AJ is going to be receiving a lot of advice from Bellew who studied Usyk meticulously for months and was able to cause him problems.

    Yeah but Evan Fields was literally a walking PED factory who jacked himself silly to help bridge the gap to campaign up at HW

    Usyk looks completely maxed out at 215-217 and I don't see how he can add another stone on top of that and it not detract from his speed and he looked notably slower at 215-217.

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    I thought he actually looked a bit better against Chisora than he did against Witherspoon

    Yeah I know he weighed that much in the WSB but he looked a lot better back then than he does now which is why I've been saying for years that he's regressed. If the Uysk who fought in the WSB was fighting AJ I'd be much happier and a lot more confident. The problem is AJ has fast hands for a big man and it's essential that Usyk has the speed advantage in this fight and ideally a significant one. If he can somehow manage to retain his speed, agility, movement, and endurance at 230-231lbs I'll admit I'm wrong but I just can't see how he can after seeing him look slower at 215-217lbs against Witherspoon and Chisora. The WSB Usyk was much faster.
     
  8. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Which sparring partner are you referring to? I know he's sparring with Bakole, which I thought was unwise. Unless Usyk decides to fight very differently against AJ, fighting Bellew and Chisora was probably a bad idea (especially Chisora: if the purpose was to acclimatise to HW then he should have fought a SHW with a lot more height and reach). Though as far as intel goes, Bellew and Chisora are pretty dumb and he surely fought them with mind to building his UK profile: two big PPV Matchroom shows as a prelude to fighting AJ, who he has been observing since the 2011 amateur world championships and has stated his intention to fight since 2016.

    Evan Fields was a walking PED factory but he was naturally smaller than Usyk: 1.5 inches shorter and the old cruiser limit was 190 lbs, yet at Usyk's age Fields was fighting around 215 lbs. Usyk fought Witherspoon in 2nd gear so I wouldn't worry about that, it reminds me of Fury vs Pianeta. I don't think Usyk has slowed down as much as it seems since the WSB; against Chisora they deliberately chose a small ring and Usyk had most trouble in the WSB with the short, stocky pressure fighter Mihai Nistor. The first two rounds of Usyk-Chisora gave a distorted impression of the fight, Usyk won the vast majority of the rounds and hurt Chisora (who is heavier and tougher than AJ) in the mid rounds. The WSB fights are 5 rounds so Usyk could afford to fight at a higher pace, even Joyce looked way faster than he does today.

    Usyk's best stoppage wins are Huck, Mchunu and Bellew: all late finishes against opponents who had previously been KO'd at least once. Conversely, he did not manage to stop Glowacki, Hunter, Briedis, Gassiev or Chisora. AJ will be the biggest and most powerful opponent he's faced so Usyk may reason that if he approaches this fight in the same way he's approached the others, he won't get the KO and he'll lose. In this context putting on mass is a calculated risk.
     
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  9. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Pulev was almost 40 and hadn't scored a notable win in years. There's nothing to suggest he was still top 10
     
  10. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    True but he's better than journeyman Schwartz and Seferi, LOL, I'd even favor him to beat overrated Otto Wallin. Pulev isn't top 10 but he's likely in the lower part of top 15.
     
  11. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Yes it's Bakole and it's a really dumb idea

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    Usyk in the background

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    ''When Martin Bakole returns from the specialist food shop that sells African produce in his quaint Scottish village, he will flick through a deluge of personal well-wishes and will expect to find one from Anthony Joshua. The world champion is a “best friend” and a regular sparring partner but Bakole is eyeing the crown to the heavyweight division – he is no stranger to royal gold, having forsaken a life of sovereignty in Africa for the uphill battle as a boxing contender.

    “I have a very good relationship with Joshua. He is my best friend, we joke on WhatsApp,” he added. “Steel sharpens steel. Joshua is a big, strong guy and so is Martin. Their boxing brains work overtime together and that is the most important thing.”

    Yeah I know why Usyk fought Bellew and Chisora but he already has everything against him as it is and all these little things add up. Bellew might be an insufferable motormouth but he has a high ring IQ and an astute boxing brain.

    The WSB Usyk was faster, more fluid and nimble, counter punched a lot more and his power was more than sufficient to either hurt, stop or at the very least keep those huge behemoths honest.

    I've said the same before myself regarding Usyk's most difficult fight in the WSB being the smallest of this SHWs Nistor and not the 6'6'' giants and that's why I suspected Chisora would cause him problems with his relentless pressure.

    Chisora is teak-tough and has a better chin than AJ for sure.

    If Usyk was on Evan Field's PEDs he'd spark AJ out cold in a round :lol:

    Hopefully you're right and he will still be able to retain his speed, agility, stamina and movement over the long haul with the extra weight but I'm not optimistic about it.
     
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  12. First Round KO

    First Round KO Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Usyk is going to do a Bellew like job on him.
     
  13. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Surely Usyk must know that Bakole and AJ are friends and the obvious dangers of hiring sparring partners who are even potential allies of the opponent? Unless there is some counter-intelligence purpose it seems extremely stupid.

    Part of Usyk's apparent decline in speed, agility, reflexes, co-ordination, balance and stamina has to do with the fact that he's almost 35 now rather than 26 and has sustained a lot more wear and tear in training and fights since then. But I maintain that Usyk could get away with a higher work rate in the WSB and it was much more necessary as your opponent is going to work a lot harder over 5 rounds as well.

    We don't know yet how much weight Usyk's putting on, we may not even be certain after the weigh-in. It's virtually axiomatic that increasing his weight past 220 is going to hinder his speed, agility and movement to some degree. The question is how much is it going to reduce it and is the gain in mass, strength, durability and power more beneficial on balance. In the abstract, we know that the latter are more important than the former: Loma is a lot faster and more dextrous than Usyk let alone AJ but he'd have no chance against either. Coming in at 210 lbs and giving up around 30 lbs in mass to a significantly bigger, stronger man who can punch hard over a 12 round fight would be a big mistake in my view.
     
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  14. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Well yea, in the WSB Usyk was a 26 year old and a handful of pounds lighter. So its not odd to see that a bigger, mid 30s version of Usyk is a slower fighter.
     
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  15. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    I don't know if he does. But that's one of the reasons I think he might have a bunch of morons surrounding him.

    Yeah age and the wear and tear of so many amateur fights is definitely a factor in his regression and like I said I've been saying he's regressed for years. The Bashir trained Usyk was the best version of Usyk we've seen in the pros. He's changed a lot since the amateurs/WSB and Bashir version. He was noticeably faster, more fluid and elusive, his reflexes and reaction times sharper and he counter punched a lot more. Certain punches have disappeared from his arsenal, like those lovely scything uppercuts he used to throw.

    He looked much slower against Witherspoon to me albeit a bit faster against Chisora and I just don't see how he's going to even retain the speed he was in those fights coming in at 230lbs.

    The more fluid, agile and quicker 211-212lbs version of Usyk who fought in the WSB with sharp reflexes and reactions times was perfect for dealing with these SHW behemoths.

    Observe how he makes them miss and pay with quick counters when he wants to even though he's standing right in front of them. They simply could not deal with his speed, counter punching and elusiveness. You can see why he chose the moniker The Cat with this version

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