Did anybody ever see anything peculiar in the Liston-Clay I fight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Dec 3, 2010.


  1. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    On Tuesday morning, 2/18, a day after his one round KO of Duke Sabedong, Eddie and his manager headed to Miami Beach.
    Bill MacDonald gave Eddie and his manager his word on all counts, and promised Eddie
    he would do all he could to promote a Liston-Machen Title fight.
    A fight in Miami Beach for 1964, and under his local promotion at the Convention Hall.
    MacDonald informed the two, that they had to be in Miami Beach, to agree in
    part for a future bout, after Sonny whipped Clay.

    MacDonald agreed to pay Eddie and Minskoff all expenses, hospitalities for as long as they needed, if they could get to Miami Beach by Tuesday evening, which they did.
    Eddie and Minskoff, agreed in principle for $10,000 to fight a soft-touch and no risk opponent.
    When Misnkoff asked Bill MacDonald just who he had in mind, MacDonald said Marty Marshall.
    It would be great undercard publicity.
     
  2. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    Unfortunately, this wasn't going to be easy.
    Bringing Marty Marshall in to Miama Beach to talk wasn't the problem, getting him
    to fight would be.
    Marshall, the Detroit Light Heavyweight from the mid-late 50's who broke Sonny's jaw and the only mad to defeat him was available for anything, as long as money was involved, and he could proclaim he had the trick to defeat Sonny.
    Bill MacDonald thought this would help local promotions, and it did for a minor moment.

    Since MacDonald would have loved to throw Marty Marshall in the ring as a warm-up fight with Eddie Machen before the Liston-Clay Title fight, it would not be.
    Marty Marshall who got his expenses and hospitalities covered, was limited to only another patron to watch the fight.

    Marshall, the 41-years old 'Michigan Bomber', had been out of boxing for 4 1/2 years,
    and had his boxing license pulled.

    Bill MacDonald trid to pull a few-strings, but to no avail. The Miami Beach Boxing Commision said no.

    MacDonald tried to utilize the (2) Liston battlers as best he could, but in reality, they were not needed for anything, but their presence, and minor 'side show'.
     
  3. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    Ping-Ping,

    The Convention Hall, Miami Beach

    Capacity 16,552

    Golden Circle (seating around the ring perimeter 720-seats)
    Auxillary Press (directly behind the Golden Circle 72-seats)
    Reserved (1000 seats)
    Lower-Level (4100 seats)
    Mid-Level (4500 seats)
    Upper-Level (6160 seats)

    The Upper-Level seats were offered up at $20 each.
    Tuesday, fight day the prices were scaled down to $10

    If the fight was a sell-out, the 'live gate' would have been $1,200,000

    Fight schedule line-up;
    Rudy Clay vs. Chip Johnson (4 rounds)
    Bob Foster vs. Dave Bailey (6 Rounds)
    Sonny Liston vs. Cassius Clay (15 Rounds)
    Otha Brown vs. Jesse Bowdry (6 Rounds)
    Leotis Martin vs. Allan Harmon (6 Rounds)
     
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Nov 24, 2005
    I stumbled across something loosely related to the Liston-Clay fight today by accident.

    I've been doing some research on the history of drug use in boxing and other sport, and found an article that wasn't really relevant to sports doping or PEDs, but it mentions Dr.Alexander Robbins, who was the Miami Boxing Commission's doctor for the fight in '64.

    Apparently Dr.Robbins and his brother were arrested by police and DEA agents in 1973 for illegal prescribing drugs and narcotics, writing out prescriptions for anyone who came in their office with ready cash.

    [url]http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=tNglAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gPMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2247,4570608&dq=drugs+sport+boxing&hl=en[/url]
     
  5. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    UN,

    I could imagine, that the Miami Beach Boxing Commission, in order to save face,
    had to find something wrong with Sonny Liston's shoulder.

    Damn, the Associated Press and the New York Times (associate sports writer) had information that Liston had not trained for several days, due to soreness in the shoulder.
    But the Commission knew nothing.

    But, I think that was circulated old news, and most boxing people knew Sonny always
    had bursitist, an inflammation of the shoulder area for years.
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    It was also another thing that made the idea of an immediate return bout unpalatable in the eyes of many.
    More than a few writers, fighters and former fighters, commented that Liston should be made to come back with a tune-up to prove he's recovered, fit and healthy, before being given another shot.
     
  7. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    The Inter-Continental Promotion boys would have never allowed that to happen.
    Not with a $3,500,000 Guarantee in the bank from Fred Brooks, the New York businessman who was in-line to promote the Boston fight.

    Even if Sonny did fight, lets say a #10 thru #20 ranked guy, and won but looked bad,
    that would have killed the big $$$ for the rematch.

    I know it was in June/July 1966, over 2-years later, but no one was impressed with
    Liston in his lumbering win over German-southpaw Gerard Zech,,,,,'das bad'.

    Maybe that inner-desire to be a 'Champion' was gone.
     
  8. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    Following the fight in Miami, the Miami Beach Boxing Commission took another look at the signed contracts.

    One contract was drawn up in July 1963, and another in August 1963.
    On was signed by both parties in October 1963, and another was signed
    in November 1963.

    In each contract, there were no return match clauses written.

    After finding out a secret deal had been reached by both parties for a return match, the Miami Beach Boxing Commission asked for a copy, for their review and files.

    A copy of that agreement was never delivered to the Commission.
    Copies of that supposed contract were never found.

    The only thing that was discovered, was that Robert Nilon (Jack Nilons brother, and manager of Sonny Liston) as Executive V.P. of Iner-Continental Promotions and Garland Cherry (I-C-P's attorney) had a
    closed door meeting at the Fountainbleu Hotel, with Bill Faversham
    (Cassius Clay's manager), Cassius Clay and Gordon Davidson (attorney),
    several days before the fight, approximately February 22nd.

    An agreement was made, that Robert Nilon, on behalf of I-C-P would give
    $50,000 to Cassius Clay, in return for granting I-C-P all promotional
    rights to his next fight, if he won the championship.
    Including, picking the date, the fighter, and location.

    All parties agreed, and whether there was a contract drawn up or not,
    no one has ever found it.
    As for the $50,000, it was delivered in cash. Was it more money than that, it was never disclosed in the Commissions investigation.
    The $50,000 payment was all that Robert Nilon would admit to.
    It may have been a 'handshake', or inside agreement.
     
  9. mister

    mister Active Member Full Member

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    Sep 30, 2010
    yes i noticed for the first time that a heavyweight can move so quick and punch at will with complete accuracy:think
     
  10. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    Yes Mister,

    Cassius Clay was built like a Gazelle, fast, quick and elusive.
    Sonny Liston, like a freight train, powerful, but slow and ponderous.

    If the fight was in a telephone booth, Sonny would have destroyed Cassius Clay's internals.
    But in the open field, like a defensive lineman trying to chase Gale Sayers.

    Sonny, was just flat-out styled to pummel a stationary target, a ring boxing genious he was not.
     
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    Right after the Liston-Patterson II fight in Las Vegas, Nevada.
    A problem developed with collecting Sonny Liston's fight purse.
    A good portion was tied up in legal matters, as Championship Fights, Inc.
    had monies frozen.
    Championship Fights, had the promotional rights of Liston's first defense.

    In April 1963, following that fight, Jack Nilon stated to Sports Illustrated that he and Sonny need to make 'big money', and fast.

    There were no big money fights out there, as Cassius Clay had been considered
    somehwat of a joke. The only other big possible money maker was convincing
    Ingemar Johansson to take a fight, but the Swede wanted it only in Stockholm.